Gehenim!🔥

ראשית חכמה, שער היראה פרק יג ‘ מסכת גיהנם.
Plenty to read with many details.

What do you do that the neshomo is not responsible because it needs the guf to do the aveira, so they get punished together?

Not the Chabad way of looking at things

Laskern, I would assume, that for some neshomos it’s a cleansing process and for mass murderers it’s an everlasting punishment. I don’t think Hitler y”s and those responsible the Crusades or Inquisition can ever be cleansed. Also if I remember correctly, people who b’davka cause others to sin can never be cleansed of their sins.

For up to 11 months

mdd1, Is the guf also punished for doing the aveira?

Laskern, yes – hibut ha’kever.
Philosopher, from the question posed at the beginning, one may conclude that some people have misconceptions about it.

Philosopher the Chabad way of looking at things is that it is a cleansing process done out of Hashems great love for us. It is painful and experienced as a punishment, but it’s a means to get cleansed to enter gan Eden

Congrats CS on your name change

Ok, perhaps purification is a better descriptive word than cleansing.

Please clarify something for me. I was under the impression, possibly mistaken, that gehinnom is for Jewish neshomas. The Gan Eden that Yidden go to is different than where the non-Jews go. The necessity to purify the neshoma of a non-Jew, particularly one who did horrible things to the Jews, like Hitler, ym”sh, is totally not clear to me. He is not going to Gan Eden or anywhere close to that, so where does he go?

Nechama, non-Jews go to Gan Eden too. (Non-Jews can be tzaddikim too, Adam and Noach for example were tzaddikim.) The reshuim whose souls cannot be purified go to to the shaul tachtes, the netherworld.

CS, if it is done out of great love, why cannot the painful aspect be skipped?

Yeah, let’s all chime in on what gehenim really is, cuz we really know… HAHAHAHA

A) We don’t know.
B) Stop believing every little thing you hear in a random shiur.

Litebrite you mentioned losing weight which reminds me of a good mashal I heard on the topic of gehennom: people do workouts in the gym which are difficult but rewarding. However the same gym routine can be experienced as torture if it was forced by gunpoint. What’s the difference? By the former you know what you are doing, the purpose it serves and how long it will take. By the latter you don’t know the purpose, or it is done just to cause pain, and you don’t know when it will be over. So too gehennom is experienced as a punishment because you don’t see the meaning behind it but in reality it is a cleansing process for the neshama.

CS, we say on Yom Kippur viduy, we are full of sin and You are full of mercy. Hashem is like the mother, who cleans the baby from the filthy diaper, purifying us from sin.

“Again, if it is done out of pure love, let Ha’SHem do it painlessly— nobody is stopping Him.”

what are you trying to say here? Are you arguing that it is for a purpose, or are you arguing that it is out of love?

I don’t know what the gemara says about gihenom so I won’t start voicing opinions, but in regard to something being both out of love and horribly painful, that is not a stira. You say nobody is stopping Him. Exactly. Since this is the way Hashem chose to make the process, this is what is in our best interest.

Please explain what you are saying, I would like to understand your point.

The Ramban in his introduction to Iyov tell us that one moment in Gehinom is more painful than all the tzoros of Iyov (quoted by the Chafetz Chaim in one of his seforim).

R’ Levy Yitzchak of berditzev is purported to have said that he’s not afraid of Gehinom because if if it’s rotzon Hashem for him to be there then there’s no better Gan Eden he could experience than fulfilling Hashem’s rotzon.

…and you liken that to gihenom?

🙂

laskern, if that is what the bracha means, please explain why women have no obligation to marry. If women’s existence is to serve their husbands it would be a woman’s obligation to marry, not her choice. Also please explain why unmarried women, widowed, divorced and spinsters say this bracha as well.

Mdd,

Are you saying that Hashem doesn’t “love” all his creations?

“If it is all love, love and love, let the cleansing be completely painless!“

So if you love someone you wouldn’t hurt them even if they would survive? (Like a doctor)

Good שבת everybody

mdd1, why do people go through trials and suffering in this life too? Maybe Hashem should’ve made a pain-free existence for all living creatures? We can grow from suffering and become better people, that’s why. Having a pain-free existence means would mean that we would stay stagnent and never grow spiritually. Same in the spiritual dimension, the neshoma goes through Gehenim to become a stronger and better spiritual being to be able to enter Gan Eden.

… Actually that’s my guess about Gehenim. It is probably only part of the real reason ( reality can have many aspects or truths to it, not only one) or not the real reason at all. Only Hashem has all the answers to the mysteries of creations.

Disclaimer:

Hashem doesn’t have “feelings” feelings are only for those that are bound by time (which Hashem isn’t) when we talk about feelings it’s only in the context of how we understand Hashem