Are mesh “tichles” tznius?

Please take this in the spirit in which it’s intended: if you want to maintain your kibud aim, if you really need an answer to this, talk to your rebbe or rebbetzin (not 100% sure if you’re M or F) and find out how to proceed. If it is at all necessary. What we think should not impact how you think about and respect your mother.

On a scale of one (birthday suit) to ten (burqua) I rate it a 7.3. The main judge (G-d)may have other scales and ratings may differ. 🙂

Are you serious?? Maybe you should talk to your Dad about this egregious offense to your spiritual sensitivities and see if he can talk some sense into her.

Regarding the “issue” itself, there is nothing you can do about it even if it was an issue. Also, this is clearly not a big deal so lay off. It’s not like your mom is parading around town in a bikini. And even then, there is not much you can do.

why do people ask shalios to annyomous bloggers?

Don’t you have a Rav/Rebbitzen

for all you know we are all abunch of crazy people.

Intellegent, I think you’re confusing this thread with another. I’m not going to reread this again but don’t rememember all your references. You may have been the first to use some indelicate language here.

intelligent: Bikini is not a four letter word. Neither is birthday suit. Now your comment has me thinking not tzniut thoughts too… 😉

Tzippi,

I guess I shouldn’t have rementioned it. Doesn’t help matters, I guess. Especially since some people nicely mention it again :(.

Okay everyone else. So lets drop it NOW!

Azi, I hear you, but at this point re shidduchim, it’s too late. People know your family, and a superficial change, or a change made superficially, is meaningless. Hopefully people know your mother as a baalas chesed, a baalas middos, who raised a fine young man like you.

Also, as important as this is to you, to the point that you wonder if you should throw out your mother’s property, how consistent are you? This is a level of frumkeit but it is almost superficial. There is shemiras halashon, kashrus, so many things. Do you measure up perfectly yourself? You’re not in shidduchim yet, are you? Because part of growing up for most people is starting to cut others slack and losing some sanctimonious. You may need more time.

Azi, while you might think taking your mother’s tichel is for her own good, take a few minutes of soul searching before you do. You say that you are very frum and even had a chavrusa bein hazmanim. Well, good for you, I respect that. But did you learn anything about respecting someone else’s property? Is takeing something and hiding it considered stealing? Did you learn anything about kibud am? Do you care ONLY about your mother’s olam haba or are you thinking about your shiduchim?

My oldest son is frumer than me. I eat chalav stam and he hasn’t sinse he was 13 (he in now married and in kollel). I told him at the time that I respected him for his decision but he better not try to change my house. Your wanting to change your mother because you are worried about what someone else will say doesn’t say much for you.

Perhaps you should want a shiduch who will look at you and see the mentch I hope you will be and not look at small avlahs on your mother.

Re R’ Joseph (sorry but without numbered comments I’ve got to use your name) if I were convinced that Azi were an Avrohom Avinu (sorry Azi; and BTW, I’m old enough to be your mother so I’ll call you by name) that might be a different story. As I’m not I would suggest he discuss this with his rebbe, maybe first write out all his thoughts, concerns.

For example, on one side he can have his worries for himself (shidduchim, what people will think), OTOH he can have his concerns for what obligations if any he has, maybe a column to write down his thoughts on perspective (like on a 1- 10 scale where does this fall, compared with lashon hara, bittul zeman, etc.)

I think Azi is a modern-day Avrohom Avinu. And in the absence of concrete evidence otherwise, so should you!

azi …

who are you to decide what is tzniyus or not? if you don’t like it, discuss it with her, your father or your rebbe.

but don’t think about doing something so wrong and stupid, and then try to justify yourself using the postings of the people on this website

Don’t touch those tichels! I forgot – one can always wear a do-rag or some other lining underneath.

Azi, of course there will be many times in life you’ll have to make your own decisions. You will do this based on the chinuch and hashkafos you got from home, and that you imbibed from the beis medrash and responsible mentors.

But let’s turn this around. Say your mother says, do I have to ask everyone? I researched this, there are sound halachic grounds for these snoods being acceptable, and anyway there is a minority opinion that says that covering the hair is not what is implied by “paruah” (when the sotah has her hair mussed) but that the requirement is to wear hair in a demure style.

What will you say then?

Also, Rav Chaim shlit”a made that decision after great research that I am sure did not involve getting the opinion of the hamon am, whether on a blog or not. He may well have taken the financial impact on the hamon am into consideration; I am not privy to how he goes about issuing a psak. But he definitely did not make an informed decision based on the random people’s opinions.

You say “Yiddishkeit isn’t run like a Dictatorship.” With all due respect, people who think that way usually don’t have a problem with other people wearing mesh tichels.

azi,

At first look after reading your diatribe, I was going to right you are an apikoirus and feivel should refrain from furthering any discussion with you. But upon further reelection I realized you nebech are just an uninformed am haaretz and perhaps there is still hope for your redemption.

Zalman, do you think your language is permissible in halacha? Why not become a kanai in the ikar which is menschlachkeit.

To add to “just me”‘s words. Azi, your leshem shamayim intentions are praiseworthy. However, if and when your mother finds out that unbeknownst to her , her tznius standards have been a topic of intense discussion on a public website, how might she feel? Imagine that you found out that hundreds (thousands?) of people you don’t know have been reading about and scrutinizing you on a website without your consent. Close this discussion for both of your sake.

Zalman (and a few others), I feel that your attacks on Azi are unjustified. He was simply asking a question: “are mesh tichles ok?” – and that is what we should be discussing.

Perhaps it would have been better if Azi hadn’t mentioned the background of the question (ie, that it involves his mother). Just plainly asking “are mesh tichles ok?” should have been enough.

But the way some people here are attacking Azi is completely out of line. Please stop this behavior.

just me: there are plenty of ‘really’ frum people out here. Me, for example. Of course most of the more ‘frum’ people aren’t found online all that much, but well – I work in the IT branch and suppose I’ll be there for the rest of my life (though my plans were actually different).

I don’t think Azi made any mistake at all. Well, except that he mentioned his mother (as he himself also said, it would have been better if he had never mentioned that). I don’t blame Azi for any of this. The blame lies with Zalman and a few others, who started calling Azi an ‘apikores’ etc. Some people really need to get a life.

Bike, that is the best idea anyone around here had.

David_Breslouer, I never said people werent’ frum, I just said that the answer about what is prober is different in different communities. Ask this question in Teaneck or ask it in New Square and you know you will get different answeres. I definatally didn’t say that Teaneck isn’t frum.

BTW, if anyone is comparing Azi (who is probably a lovely child)to Avrahom Avinu, are you saying that a mesh tichel is avorah zara?