Maharal’s Golem

R Rosenberg did not invent it rather popularized it. There are plenty of mentions before him but not far back enough to believe it took place. Read Sid Leimans article on it.

Golem of Prague

I’v joined cr couple of months ago. In beginning it was exciting. But recently came to see everything is just rehashed again and again. The anti zionists, the pro Trumps, the pro establishment (not many) and the anti establishment. The more Yeshivesh than thou and the “I take pride in bashing the Yeshivesh/chasidesh/MO/Rabbanim/The ones who bash Rabbanim”.

Nothing new and not much which is thought provoking.

You forgot to mention the ‘CR posters are repetitive and boring’ bashing

>>>Just heard lately that the whole Golem thing is a fabrication of someone Reb Yudel Rosenberg from Montreal about 100 years ago.

As other posters have mentioned, discussions about the golem are recorded much before 100 years ago.
Don’t worry, you can still trust your childhood.

The Rebbe Rayatz traveled to Prague with his father (the Rashab – definitely over 100 years ago), and he went up to the attic to see the remains of the golem.

This is the Rebbe’s response to a kuntres that doubted the truth of the Golem (due to the lack of credibility of Yudel Rosenberg):
בנוגע לס’ נפלאות המהר”ל והאגרות וכו’ שמזכיר – לא עיינתי בהם ובמילא איני מחוו”ד בזה כלל.
ובנוגע לעיקר הענין (שהמהר”ל עשה את הגולם) – בעצמי שמעתי מכ”ק מו”ח אדמו”ר שראה הנשאר ממנו – בעליית ביהכנ”ס דמהר”ל בפראג. ודיבר עד”ז עם אביו כ”ק אדנ”ע וכו’.
הקושיות שבהמצו”ב על הס’ הנ”ל – אין נוגעות כלל בהעיקר, כי מכו”כ עשירויות שנים לפני ההו”ל של הס’ הנ”ל הי’ מפורסם בתוך בנ”י שהמהר”ל עשה גולם, ואפילו – אצל הא”י, ועיין בהס’ בהספריות (כמצויין באנצקלפדיות)

Ely: Your are saying that is the Riyatz’s interpretation of the Rebbe?

ujm: No, the Rebbes interpretation of the Riyatz.

>>>Either way, any way you explain it, the Rebbe and/or the Riyatz seems to be saying that the story of the Golem is true.

Not saying otherwise but the evidence here is based on the perception of the Riyatz of what he saw in the alteneushul attic. By his own account it wasn’t the actual golem. Even had the Riyatz not gone into the attic of the alteneushul they probably would have felt the same way about the golem.

When I was much younger, just becoming frum, I had of course heard of the Golem. I was travelling some of Europe and went to visit a friend near Prague. I went one afternoon to see the old Shul and the Maharal’s kever. I asked one of the attendants there to let me go up to the attic. They laughed and said the door is locked and no-one even has a key any more. I came back later that night. On the outside of the Shul there is another door, and two windows set far apart. But the door is very high up and there is on direct way to reach it. There are metal rungs in the wall below the door, but even those rungs begin about 4m from the ground. Anyway, I came back later that night with a ladder from the caretaker of the place where I was staying. I used it to reach the rungs and climb up. That door was also locked, obviously. The right window was way to far to see anything. The left window, if I stood dangerously with one foot on the top rung and left foot on a ridge in the brickwork that ran around the building, and held kind of onto the raised feature in the brickwork between the window and the door, then I could look through some of the deep-set window , but the angle wasn’t great to see towards the centre of the room at all. I even brought a torch (USA = flashlight) with me. The window was not covered (other than bars) or particularly dirty, but I couldn’t see anything really. Then, for some reason, I decided to try banging on the door. About 10 seconds later I CLEARLY saw a large human figure glide slowly to the left-side of the window, pause for half a second and then carry on across the window to the right. I got scared it was coming towards the door so I climbed down as fast as I could. My friend, who came with me, and held the ladder said he thinks he saw something move in the window too, but he wasn’t sure and I think he might have just been saying it for my sake. But I am positive what I saw.

ujm: The Rebbe saying that it was true, doesn’t mean it actually happened.

As a matter of fact, it should be noted that extensive renovation took place in the attic of the Altneu shul in 1883. No evidence of the Golem was discovered then.8 A film crew visited and filmed the attic in 1984. No evidence of the Golem was discovered then.

Dan, there were dozens of documented golim made by geonim, rishonim, and achronim. The only one that has had questions raised on it was the maharals, because his talmidim don’t mention it. Poskim debate if a golem counts for a minyan.

It’s a very real thing.

Allegorizing chazal without a mesorah or rishonim who say so is possible apikorsus. There are many scientific things which are incredible but understood to those who study them, so it is wise to not form opinions on things (kabalah…) Withoit knowing about them, wisking them away with flippant kashos with preconceived notions about what makes something living.

The most Litvishe answer to this question is a story I heard from a Rebbi of mine.

Sometime in the 70s, a man who worked for Philly (The Philadelphia Yeshiva under Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky and Rav Elya Svei L’havdil) wrote a whole kuntrus documenting all the sources of the Golem of Prague and cross referencing them with historical dates, other mentions of golems, the Maharals writings, etc. His conclusion was that there is no way that any of the Golem stories were true.

Anyways, he brought his sefer to Rav Shach for a haskama. Rav Shach asked him, “Do you think it’s possible for the Maharal to have made a golem?”. “Of course he could of!”. “Then what’s the difference whether he did or didn’t?”.

To Sam Klein: Golem existed long before teleprompters. Think before you post, especially when you’re just making it up.

>>>I’m sure there is a way of understanding the Gemara without saying that matter came to life without any internal organs.

Why is that difficult to understand? Are there no robots in human form carrying out some human functions and activities without internal organs? They came to being through mechanical methods and golems came into being spiritual methods but they are relatively similar in function despite lack of internal organs

In the end of the Lubavitcher Rebbe zatzal’s letter he asks: how is this helping you in Avodas Hashem?

@ujm It’s a Chassidishe mindset to write books and tell stories about fantastic things that Tzaddikim did in order to inspire awe in people regarding those Tzaddikim. It’s a Litvishe mindset to derive awe from a Tzaddik’s Torah and look at stories as nice things, but inconsequential compared to their Torah.

What about conservation of energy?

Is there any reason to doubt that some of our Gedolim today are capable of creating a Golem, if he deems it necessary?

@ujm The rationalist in me says no. We do not have Gedolim on the level of the gedolim of previous generations, and compared to the Maharal and the Gra, even our Gedolim are dust. The misnaged in me says “Maybe. But who cares?”

>>>Rabbi Krohn said that there was no golem as there was no mention of the golem in any writings until many years after the maharal was niftar.

That doesn’t prove anything. According to all versions of the Golem story it was a strictly kept secret at the time it existed. From the few people who did know about it was the SIL of the Maharal who helped make it. The way the story allegedly became known to the public was after it was found in that SIL’s private writings about a hundred years after his death. Therefore the question of “why wasn’t it mentioned/known?” doesn’t really prove anything

Avira> chofetz Chaim said regarding not having dibukim anymore until moshiach comes

and then, I recall, he actually cured a girl with a dibbuk…

Avira, he only quotes his Sefarim, and a general description of thr Maharal’s Mishnayos groups. I don’t think there’s any Halacha or Pshat that he says he heard from the Maharal. He doesn’t seem like a close Talmid.

Abba, nobody serious about hashkofa has ever doubted the existence of golems; there have been people who questioned or denied specifically the maharals golem, because of historical kashas, not hashkafic ones.

But most gedolim say like what’s been quoted here; he could have made it, so who cares if he did or not? And we also shouldn’t expend effort to minimize things like this… The motivation could be maskilish

“Allegorizing chazal without a mesorah or rishonim who say so is possible apikorsus.”

It’s defintely a problem for those who need to defend everything without learning anything.