making a siyum on a yahrtziet
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June 13, 2023 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #2199478square root of 2Participant
What’s the Inyan? Is it just to get an extra kaddish? A way of demonstrating that the offspring are adding zechusim for the niftar/nifteres? Other reasons?
June 14, 2023 12:19 am at 12:19 am #2199540funnyboneParticipantNot to fast
June 14, 2023 7:19 am at 7:19 am #2199557Sam KleinParticipantSo that all the learning of the entire masechta and effort put into it with all the time involved should all be in the zchus for who the yahrtzeit seuda is for. And come to a complete Siyum on the yahrtzeit
June 14, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2199725mentsch1ParticipantSo Funny and Sam
I am not aware of a source for a yarzheit seuda, just the opposite the seforim talk about fasting
We certainly fast less than we did in the olden days as we are considered weaker
but assuming funny is correct, that we make a siyum to get out of fasting, is that enough of a reason for a seudah?
isn’t that a bit k’neged the whole point?June 14, 2023 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #2199766Reb EliezerParticipantSee. SA O’CH 568,3 where the Mechaber says to fast when passed away on one Ador, on the second Ador for the fathers yshrzeit as.paskened over here by the Chasam Sofer and not like the RMA because the commemoration of a pain is postponed.
June 14, 2023 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #2199802n0mesorahParticipantDear Mentsch,
A siyum is a good a reason as any to make a seudah. The question is if one should make a seudah to get out of fasting.
June 14, 2023 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #2199839mentsch1ParticipantNomesorah
a yartzeit seudah isn’t inherently a siyum
there are 2 examples i can think of where we use the siyum excuse to get out of fasting, erev RH and Pesach. Rav Chaim was makpid to always make a bracha on at least a cup of water when he finished a mesechta. That way a siyum is always associated with food and the “heter” for using it on erev RH and Pesach makes sense.
But my question is: both erev RH and Pesach are personal tshuva days. so the siyum seems to act in the place of tshuvah. But the yartzeit, is that personal or for the niftar? bc if it is for the niftar, then its nice to make a siyum for the neshama, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to making a party which seems very much not in the spirit of the day.
personally I try not to go to a yartzeit seudah that isn’t a siyum bc without the siyum it seems very wrong.June 15, 2023 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #2200291n0mesorahParticipantDear Mentsch,
I thought it’s the other way. Rav Chaim understood that every completion is worth celebrating. I don’t think it has to do with a standard for a siyum.
I don’t know the answer to your question.
“…. not in the spirit of the day.”
Agreed.
June 16, 2023 1:45 am at 1:45 am #2200329mentsch1ParticipantIn the biography it brings that rav chaim usually tried to have a kos of wine when finishing a mesechta
But if he was in kollel he always made at least a shehakol (even if only on water)
By celebrating every siyum with food it cements the association and gives more credence to the idea of using a siyum to get out of fastingJune 20, 2023 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #2201676square root of 2ParticipantSo seems the unanimous consensus is that making a siyum is directly related to the subsequent seudah?
June 20, 2023 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #2201738n0mesorahParticipantDear Mentsch,
“By celebrating every siyum with food it cements the association and gives more credence to the idea of using a siyum to get out of fasting.”
Is that rationalization from the biography? I don’t think it is meant that way.
June 22, 2023 10:56 am at 10:56 am #2202186mentsch1ParticipantArtScroll mourning in halacha p421-422
1) a mourner can NOT eat at a siyum
2) some say if HE is making the siyum he can eat
3) if a mourner eats on his yartzeit the custom is not to eat meat/wine
It brings down in the footnotes that the ksav Sofer made a dairy siyum
based on this I still have 2 questions
How can someone making a siyum be yotzeh his brothers? In light of #1 they all should have to make a siyum
And in light of #3 , why did the last yartzeit seudah I went to have catered spare ribs as the main?
It still makes me uncomfortableJune 22, 2023 10:56 am at 10:56 am #2202190mentsch1ParticipantNomesorah
Here’s the quote from the book page 460
“He was always stringent about making sure to drink some thing, because his father told him that if one does not usually eat or drink after a siyum, it is questionable, whether the siyum can replace the fast of the first born on erev pesach. Rav Chaim made it a point to always drink something after each siyum to ensure it was treated as a meaningful gathering”June 22, 2023 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #2202542Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAt the end, learning a maseches well is probably the best thing one could do to show respect to his parent. Maybe a masechet that reflects the parent’s values.
June 22, 2023 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #2202564mentsch1ParticipantAlways
agreed
I spent some more time on it
I can not find anything about an inyan of making a seudah or even a siyum seudah in any litvish source
Though in regards to my questions above I believe the kitzur is mashma it doesn’t have to be dairy (by virtue of his only using the word seudah which I believe traditionally means meat)
Incidentally rav reisman has said in the name of rav Pam that learning would take precedence over visiting the kever. Especially if they are buried in EY and you will end up “wasting”days (and money) better to spend those three days learning and giving the money to tzedakah
Admittedly rav Pam stopped saying it in public, Bc it was an unpopular positionJune 23, 2023 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #2202669n0mesorahParticipantDear Mentsch,
Thanks for the quote! It is not like I undertood. Though it is not Rav Chaim’s chiddush.
In general, I’m not against the sentiment you are expresing here.
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