Nittel

FYI Joseph, you used the term “xtians”, the goyim consider “x” to be a symbol for Yushka and it is therefore equivalent to writing “Christians”

The Chasam Sofer says the reason for nitel nacht is that the christians who were extremely anti-semitic used to get very violent with Jews on Dec. 25 or Jan. 7, depending on where they lived. Therefore they made a takana no one can go to beis medrash and learn because the streets are dangerous.

R’ Elyashiv says that the reason is that on Dec. 25, all the christians go to pray and there is so much tumah in the world, that al pi kabala if kedushas hatorah comes it can be extremely harmful. He says that this no longer applies nowadays in eretz yisroel since they are mostly, if not all arabs, and don’t have such a thing as christmas. So there isn’t that koach hatumah in Eretz Yisroel. Lefi his reasoning, this probably no longer applies in America either because it is highly doubtful that people go to church. It is not really a religious holiday anymore, but is a day that goyim get together, get drunk, scream rarara, and have a good time. It is much more probable to find them in the bar than at church. The reason for this is when the christaians wanted to make a new religion, they went to Rome and tried to convince people about chrisianity. Since there were such a variety of religions in Rome and were millions of names of gods in their books, no one cared to switch over to crissianity. The pagans, however, said they do not mind switching to crissianity as long as they don’t give up their fun and exciting day- Dec. 25. The crissians answered no problem, by us we’ll also celebrate Dec. 25. This makes sense also because their bible says he was born in the spring( i think) so why would they celebrate in the middle of the winter. Also, this thing with the man in the red suite climbing down chimeneys is only a few hundred years old, so it is not so much a religious holiday.

I assume that the reason that litvaks don’t keep nitel is because either they didn’t live in dangerous areas or because the reason I just mentioned. I heard b’sheim the chofetz chaim that he said he’ll take the “aveiro” of anyone that learns on nitel nacht. I don’t know the mekor for this though.

Not everything is as it seems. That is what the Rabbonim are for.

Oso ha’ish, why oto ha’ish?

nameless, a mamzer is not rejected by Klal Yisroel. It is of no fault of his own for his status. Indeed there are serious restrictions against people punishing or embarrassing a mamzer.

BS”D

Yes – yshua is the name that they use but it could be a construct of the j4j. It is not even clear that this guy existed and if he did that the religion has anything to do with the (rather minor) historical figure that may have been.

Also, if not the X, what should we use? I know the X is theoretically wrong but it is what everyone uses. If we use the word then we are saying oiso ho’ish is hristos, or the anointed one which is lehavdil an exact translation of Moshiach. Maybe we can use yoshkeists or yoshkelach on this board…

BS”D

JC is no good either – what is the C the initial of :))))! Yeshu (without the Ayin) is ymach shmo vezichrono; or you can use the more politically correct notzrim (probably not too nice a reference for my many friends from Natzrat Ilit LOL!)

intellegent: because thats the way we learn ivrit in my school…most of my teachers are israeli, and the one that taught me historia said “oto haish.”

bklyn, im pretty sure it’s yehoshua.

well seems like BYM and Brooklyn19 are facing a dilemma… any men here to help us out??? lol i could be wrong. it’s happened before :}

asdf – you don’t know? shame on you.

Bais Yaakov maydel: go dig out the notes!!! i 2 recall it being yehoshua!!!

My understanding is that Misnagdim (non Chassidim) generally ignore the date. On the other extreme some say that since we do not know for sure which day he was born, every night has to be treated as a possible Nittel. That is the Minhag in the casinos!!!!!

BYM & Brooklyn19: just call him Jesus, leave off the second name.

One of my Rabbeim always referred to him like that.

Given the claims christianity makes about ueshu, when he lived and when he died, it is highly unlikely that he was a talmid of R’ Yehoshua Ben Prachya. R’Yehoshuia Ben Prachya lived at least 100 years before the churban, (Hillel – at least 1 Dor later -was Nasi about 70 years before the Churban). The Chacham Tzvi says there were several Yeshus who Shas refers to. The christiam one is not him.

Missionaries (unfortunately, I have had the perverse “pleasure” of engaging these people in debate)do not bother to try and shoehorn him into Shas, they would rather shoehorn him into Tanach. It suits their purposes a lot better. It is mostly hate sites and anti semitic preachers that try and claim Shas (the Talmud as they refer to it) portrays him in a bad light, and make outrageous claims that Bilaam is a code word for Yeshu. They are the ones who claim that the gemara about Ben Patera is about yeshu. They are the ones who claim the gemara about “Miriram Megadla” (either bonim or sa-ar – this miriam was either a nanny who raised kids or someone who did hair) is really a story about mary magdalene.

Whether his name is Yeshua or Yehoshua also depends on who you ask. The misisonaries who call themselves “jews for j” call him yeshua – savior.

Whatever his name, yidden have been slaughtered and buthchered in that name for more than 2000 years. Do we have to talk about him?

Wolf: The issue may be due to midnight mass, not the actual day attendance (night = more Tumah?)

Okay, but then so what? Not all Christians who go to church on Christmas go to the midnight mass. Firstly, only Catholics have a midnight mass — Protestants don’t have Mass at all! Secondly, even many Catholics who go to Mass don’t do so at midnight but rather during the day.

In addition, I’d wager that you have more people attending a midnight mass at the Vatican than in all the churches in New York combined. Perhaps we should not learn when it’s midnight in Rome?

The Wolf

was he a mamzer?

his father was unknown, he cant be poskined as a mamzer.

probably a shtuki

at the very worst a safek mamzer.

jphone, he was definitely a student of R’ Yehoshua ben Perachya. the story goes that oto ha’ish was walking with his Rebbe and he said hello to a woman walking on the street. R’ yehoshua gave him mussar, yelled at him, idk exactly, and refused to see him ever again. on his deathbed, when oto ha’ish came knocking begging for forgiveness, he still refused to see or forgive him, so oto ha’ish started his own “branch” of Judaism, which evolved into Christianity.

BYM: DEFINITELY? You were there? As many opinions as there on here in the coffee room, there are as many opinions in the seforim. The yaavetz writes that there were NUMEROUS Yeshus referred to in Shas.

Greek and Roman mythology is filled with many people whose backrounds are similar to the “founder of christianity” (actually that was paul – but thats another discussion).

I still dont see why we are discussing someone in whose name yidden have been slaughtered and buthcred for over 2000 years.

i was researching a word and found this site, i respect jphone and agree with nameless

the slaughter/torture of the yidden under the name of oso ha ish is/has no reasonable explanation – evil is not to strong a word – thank you to all the learned comments involved

MIB – It’s pretty clear in the other thread, I guess only for a few more hours.

Could you learn from a Sefer Torah Shekasvo Min?

BTW, the name Nittul is a play on what it was obviously referred to by the christians, Nettle, which means birth in Latin.

The name Nittul suggest another reason not to learn. The Gemara says regarding Trayfos, Kol Hayesser Kinatul Dami, what is extra is as if it is missing — and renders the animal a Traifa. Now, since they added to the Torah, and thereby ruined the while concept of torah, we don’t learn that night to show that adding is taking away.

Is there any special food we eat on Nittel?

Is there any Tefilla to say before you don’t learn?

Do Sefardim keep the whole ramadan?

Is it a Hiddur to play chess, or to cut t. paper?

If you started a game before Chatzos, and Chatzos chanced by, do you finish the game, go learn, go to sleep, Daven Maariv, leave the game for next year, or argue if you are supposed to learn on Nittul night?

It’s one thing to stop learning on Nittel. People need rest anyway sometimes so why not take it this one day a year. It’s another entirely to close the Mikvaos. There are some Mikvaos that are closed on 4 days (the 25th, the T’kufah, and the night before of each), which is actually being M’vatel K’lal Yisrael from Piryah V’rivyah.