Yeshivish Girls/Wives/Rebbetzins in College

Aw, can’t you take a more subtle approach?  I hate deleting your posts but there isn’t always any leeway.

If a “Yeshivish Guy” wants to sit in Kollel or learn, obviously he is expecting his wife to provide parnassah for the family (unless the couple has wealthy parents willing to pick up the tab). While there are some exceptions, having a college degree (and sometimes a graduate degree) is almost universally a prerequisite to professions paying a good salary. If the guy wants his wife to pay the bills, she needs a college degree.

Degrees making kollel more sustainable is a question… Often having to pay off college debt is a factor. And it takes years for a degree earning woman to make enough money to justify it – the same amount of time that an average yungerman stays in kollel, so the net gain is difficult to see.

And by that time, the career will take its tool on many women’s ability to be a fully devoted mother and wife.

Avira, such kallah could finish or almost finish a bachelor degree by the time of getting married, at reasonable cost with loans to be paid over long time or even forgiven eventually if she doesn’t earn much, not sure of details
She can then work a small number of hours at higher rate, exactly what a busy mother needs.

Just to comment about how long it takes for the woman’s earnings to make it “worth it” – it really depends on what program she did and how quickly she can finish. I have a relative who had a lot of college credits when she finished high school due to AP and such, went to sem for a year, then did online college for a year after that while a madricha in a sem. After she returned to the US, she went to a nursing program that got her a BSN and they place the girls in nursing positions. She is going to be making around 100K at age 21.5. I don’t know how much debt she has, but perhaps her parents are going to pay that? Even so, she is not yet married and hopefully can pay it off quickly, perhaps before she even gets married.

I am a family law attorney (along with wills and trusts with decades of experience.
My daughter all have college degrees, and professional degrees and are licensed professionals.
That said, they did not leave with college debt. I would much rather pay to make sure they have earnings capability than to support a son in law in Kollel.

WHY?????
Having handled far too many divorces over the years for Jews and non-Jews. The young lady will never lose her education and earning ability if the marriage ends in divorce, but the investment in a son in-law learning in kollel is thrown away money after the divorce.

Let the man’s parents pay for it if they want to, but it is not the woman’s parents’ responsibility.

CT, I was shocked that you would just throw out there that “the investment in a son in-law learning in kollel is thrown away money after the divorce”.

Support of a young man learning Torah has inestimable value and has nothing to do with an end result. But even if your support is only for the tangible benefit, the effect on children of a home where the father dedicates substantial time to learning is enormous and will have a lifelong impact regardless of whether the marriage ended in divorce. I sincerely hope you reconsider your position.

I went to Kollel and subsequently to college and here’s my opinion. First of all, I’m not discussing a woman who wants to go to college for her own personal reasons. I’m solely addressing the question of, should a woman to go to college to get a better paying job so that her husband can stay in Kollel. To which my answer is, this derech is completely Krum. 1. A woman is the mainstay of the house, and should be the guardian of the Frumkeit and the Tzniyus. Sending her to college compromises this and should in no way be done for the “benefit” of the husband remaining in Kollel. If anyone goes to college, it should be the husband. This way, his wife can remain the mainstay of the house as she should be. If you will argue that there are temptations, I will answer you from my own experiences. The yeshiva guys who were in college when I attended were for the most part over 30. No shiksa is going for a 30 year old half-balding Jewish guy with a Boich. On the other hand, the frum women who attended were usually nicely dressed and made up, and wearing their shaitels. A lot more stuff can happen in the other direction, to put it mildly. That’s my opinion.

*sigh*. HaGaon HaRav Elya Svei ztvk’l answered the OP decades ago.

Speech from HaRav Elya Svei:

It says further, in Targum Yonoson, that one should not be a false witness. I want to stop here. In public life here in Brooklyn, there is false testimony. We have merited, through blood and sweat and with the Almighty’s help, to establish large Yeshivos for the boys and Bais Yaakovs for the girls. And these schools produced students of whom all can be proud. But then someone comes and says that they are still incomplete. When the boys go out of the Yeshiva, they are still not finished — they still need more studies: they still have to go to “Touro College” to be well-rounded. That is the biggest false testimony against the Torah. The boys do not need such “completeness”.

One is not allowed to be friends with them! One is not allowed to be partners with them! What will be with our children? From where will our great Torah leaders come? From Touro College they will not come! And mothers of Gedolei Torah will also not come from Touro College, because the Gemorah says that to merit children who will become Gedolei Yisroel, one has to have modesty. And modesty cannot be acquired in Touro College!

@Sol82
Money spent keeping a sim-in-law in Kollel is an investment. Money spent to ensure others in Kollel can remain and the Kollel stays in operation is Tzedaka hand that is money well spent.
If the son-in-law remains such it is a good investment, if the marriage breaks up it was not a good investment.

Even if the marriage does end, your support of a person to learn is something you’ll have forever and ever… it’s not dependent on him being your son in law…sorry i missed that point earlier

@Avira
You need a qualifier in your statement about lomdei torah and prenuptial agreements. They are not common, but they exist. I have executed a few over the years. It is usually true that if he is going to learn and she has to earn that there may be no fortune to protect, but sometimes there is a probable yerusha that affects the situation.

What are your thoughts on the Halachic Prenup @ctl?

Ok, ujm, thanks for the psak on touro, do you also have gedolim on record against columbia medical school and against asu online?

Aaq…a kesuva is made to prevent divorce, not in case of it. שלא תהא קל בעיניו להוציאה, that it shouldn’t be light in his eyes to divorce her. It’s also usually in effect for widows. It’s the opposite of a prenup.