Chabad Inspires all Jews to Yearn for Mashiach

as i wrote i made a mistake and mixed together 2 sources. but check the 2nd source i mentioned. אגרת ט
על כן, אהוביי אחיי, שימו נא לבבכם לאלה הדברים הנאמרים בקצרה מאד (ואם ירצה ה׳ פה אל פה אדבר בם בארוכה), איך היות כל עיקר עבודת ה׳ בעתים הללו בעקבות משיחא היא עבודת הצדקה, כמו שאמרו רבותינו־זכרונם־לברכה: ״אין ישראל נגאלין אלא בצדקה״. ולא אמרו רבותינו־זכרונם־לברכה ״תלמוד תורה שקול כנגד גמילות חסדים״, אלא בימיהם, שתלמוד תורה היה עיקר העבודה אצלם, ועל כן היו חכמים גדולים תנאים ואמוראים. מה שאין כן בעקבות משיחא, שנפלה ״סוכת דוד״ עד בחינת רגלים ועקביים, שהיא בחינת עשיה, אין דרך לדבקה בה באמת ולהפכא חשוכא לנהורא דילה [נוסח אחר: דיליה] כי אם בבחינת עשיה גם כן, שהיא מעשה הצדקה, כידוע למשכילים, שבחינת עשיה באלקות – היא בחינת השפעת והמשכת החיות למטה מטה למאן דלית ליה מגרמיה כלום
here he is speaking about tzedaka i know, thats why i mentioned the other source, whatever, כל ספרי חסידות מלאים בדבר זה.
whats the point of learning torah btw? whats the point of mitzvos? what is torah and mitzvos?
im not trying to argue (im not interested to prove my point to someone who doesn’t know much chassidus) but im writing so maybe one drop of chassidus will enter someone who reads, and awaken his neshama.
tanya is one sefer, its called torah shebiksav of chassidus, learning only tanya is like learning chumash and being like a tziduki who tighs a sign on his hand for tefillin. learn all the seforim of the baal hatanya if you want. they are called מאמרי אדמור הזקן in case you dont know.

Continuing a narrative about tanya being “torah shebichsav” or whatever is just that – a narrative. You have no evidence that chabad ever looked at it that way before the last rebbe changed everything.

As for the igeres. Did you notice that he’s talking to working people? You left out the first part of the letter. He’s cautioning them to work and have families leshem shomayim.

For them, he’s saying that what will bring the geulah is mitzvos maasios in addition to their learning (he says gam kein), tzedaka being a prime example.

He’s coming laafukei the idea that all you have to do is learn, because lots of people think that way. Also, why do chessed if chazal say that torah is bigger?

He’s saying that in our time, ikvesa demishicha, they need physical involvement too(train the words ‘gam kein’)

And clearly, the baal hatanya didn’t spend all of his time or even most of his time doing chessed; he sat and learned all day, and was a massive talmid chochom.

additional sources about davening
לקוטי תורה תצא לח, ב
לקוטי תורה פ׳ בהעלותך לב, ד
תורת חיים פ׳ נח נד, ג
just a few, anyway the point was about the importance of davening thats why chassidim spend hours on preparation and the actual davening
the misnagdim were against this from the time of the baal shem tov,
and in those times there were many debates, read the debate in minsks etc,
and to yserbius – im not in denial its just we in chebad dont need to answer our minhagim taught to us by קדושי עליון, we couldnt care less what others have to say. (its only we try to spread the light of chassidus cuz we love every jew) – although i cant understand why anyone would try to hide the rebbes amazing teaching which besides from the intellectual aspect of it, they also give one a chayos in yiddishkiet like nothing else – טעמו וראו כי טוב הוי’ פארזוכט וועט איר זעהן אז דער אויבערשטער איז גוט. (taste chassidus and you’ll see how good hashem and yiddishkiet is)

Also, please acknowledge that you misrepresented the igeres of the heiligeh baal hatanya; or rather, your “mashpia” did, or his did, or someone.

@sechel83 Satmar does everything in their power to promote “Divrei Yoel” and “VaYoel Moshe” all over the place. However, they do not dedicate regular sedarim in Yeshiva to teach it, pasken halacha based off of the Rebbe’s speeches, nor make it a priority to memorize entire swaths of it.

I’m not “hiding the Rebbes amazing teachings”, I’m criticizing the undue amount of importance that Chabad puts on every word ever spoken or written by Rav Schneerson ZT”L. It’s Kodesh, but not that kodesh. There are many things he may have said that he changed his mind on, or that he was mistaken about at the time. Not to mention the changes in society and audience that make the words obsolete or irrelevant. You can’t base a Yiddishe lifestyle on things a single Tzaddik said decades ago!

The reason I mention it is that you want to prove to us that Chabad minhagim about certain mitzvos are justified because of things the late Rebbe of Lubavitch once said. However, that’s not good enough for us because of the circular logic.

The Lubavitch minhag is to treat Rav Schneerson’s writings and speeches as the be-all and end-all of Torah. So they interpret many of these writings and speeches to follow certain minhagim. And then justify those minhagim by referencing the writings and speeches. Circular.

Avirah, you do not need to know aleph-beis to put on teffilin. “Karkafta” which never wore teffilin is very,very serious. This ta’anah is already just picking on Chabad.

I don’t think it is a problem that Chabad is learning seforim of their Rebbe seriously. A response that sure many gedolim wrote something and this is light reading is strange. Obviously, leaders of our time address issues relevant to our time and it is worth studying in depth. Previous Torah is of course important and we can’t just red recent responsa without learning earlier material, but we are not resolving last centuries’ issues, but the current ones!

So, a possible problem arises when someone insists that everyone should learn their derech in a significant way, otherwise, why can’t they learn their own Rebbe and share that Torah with us?

mdd: The shitta of some to not to eat in a Sukka on Shmini Atzeres, predates the existence of Chasidus.

Ujm, some far-off das-yochid type of shittos that the S.A. and the Poskim do not follow. And, AGAIN — THEY DO NOT CARE FOR THE HALOCHIC HETER. IT is not like they suddenly ruled like those far-off opinions. They do it for the reason I stated.

@Always_Ask_Question In my personal opinion, the issue as I see it is that in many instances Chabad attaches almost as much importance on every word Rav Schneerson ZT”L said as if it were Chazal. There’s something very special about learning the writings of gedolim in depth, especially if he was your gadol (i.e. Satmar and “Divrei Yoel”).

There is a huge difference between something a gadol wrote in a sefer, and something that was in a letter or speech. Something in a sefer is meant for everyone and it’s expected that the gadol did due diligence to make sure that what was written is either applicable to the Doros, or has caveats about when it does apply. However, speeches and letters are all about specific audiences and to take those speeches and treat them as halacha applicable l’oilom vo’ed is not a proper mehalech. What worked in the Shtetl doesn’t work in the USA. What worked for Russian immigrants in 1970 doesn’t work for Israeli Yeshiva bachurim in 2023.

The learning of only Chabad seforim isn’t the only thing. I’ve been at Chabad bar mitzvahs and weddings. They make a whole ordeal out of reading the Rebbe’s letter! For those who don’t know, the Rebbe had a standard letter that he wrote wishing a mazal tov on a simcha. At Chabad smachot, as part of the ceremony, they ask everyone to rise, and then they read the letter. I was at a bar mitzvah once, at a table with non-Chabad neighbors of the family. Most of us did not stand, and the MC (it wasn’t the father of the bar mitzvah boy) got upset at us and called out our table publicly for not standing.
I though the whole thing was bizarre.

i havo issue saying that i misinterpreted the kuntres acharon,
the problem is that you need to read past the first line, (if you can’t understand past there, then either 1) learn more chassidus till you understand, or 2) dont say opinions on something you dont know
in chassidus this is a big sugya whats higher and whats the kavana, etzem, giluyim etc. mentions it in tanya many times, learn hemshech 5666 – around 1000 (yes one thousend) pages and come back.
btw a quote from the kuntres acharon:
אלא שידיעת המציאות מההשתלשלות, היא גם כן מצוה רמה ונשאה, ואדרבה – עולה על כולנה, כמו שכתוב: ״וידעת היום כו׳״, ״דע את אלקי אביך כו׳״, ומביאה ל״לב שלם״ כו׳, שהוא העיקר, והשגת המציאות הוא להפשיט מגשמיות כו

Sechel…now we’re just quoting random lines from other kuntres acharon?

I’m not even going to look up the context this time, because this conversation has veered so off rhe rails that it just isn’t worth debunking another claim.

First you said to look at kuntres acharon. I did. Your claims didn’t hold up there at all.

Then you said to look at igros. I did. Again, you misrepresented.

So why should anyone trust you a 3rd time? You are claiming something and dancing around various mareh mekomos from your mashpia or from google searches – I’m not going to play this game anymore. Neither am i going to play the game of me being instantly wrong because I’m not Lubavitch, and that only people who sit and spend their whole day learning things that they don’t understand “really” know what’s going on

Please. This whole exchange has been misquotes and appeals to authority, the way college kids say that you’re not qualified to have an opinion on a political issue if you’re not a professor.

This is the result of insecurity and knowing deep down that you’re wrong.

1) that’s exactly my point, for us in chabad we believe in our rabbaim, they are the אתפשטותא דמשה of the generation, neshama of atzilus or שמיטא הראשונה – this idea is explained in דרך מצותיך, bikitzur in perek 2 tanya, maamer באתי לגני תשכג. look also in לקו”ש חלק ד פרשת דברים. (some sources to start).
apparently litvaks are against this whole idea of a rebbe, so why are you even criticizing us 1) you think you are the police men of the world? 2) some of you try to prove from tanya that we are wrong, thanks, go fly a kite, if you’re good at learning gemara, do that, don’t explain to us what it says in our chassidus, and what our rabbaim mean,
(disclaimer: you should learn chassidus with an open mind, because it will reveal deeper levels of your neshama eventually)

Sechel 83, Litvaks aren’t against the idea of having a Rebbi, they argue against what the function of having a Rebbi is and even what it means to connect with hashem, litvaks or at least briskers, which is where my rebbis mesorah in hashgofo and learning comes from was incredibly close to his rebbi, Rav Aharon Soloveitchik zatsal. He explained to me that a Rebbi is to give over to the talmid his hashgofo and derech halimud exactly, that’s all. We don’t connect to Hashem through a rebbi by connecting to a rebbi, we do by using the tools our rebbeim give us. The idea of following a rebbi isn’t chassidish, and the only reason chassidish rebbeim our passed down through a dynasty is because that was how the rabbinate often worked in a shtetl.

Avira > chabad just asks people if they’re Jewish and plops it on them,

So, if you feel you can help here, stand nearby and interrogate these potential yidden to help the busy shluchim? It could be a conveyer –
one chabadnik asks “excuse me, are you Jewish”? yes go to the right, no goes to the left
Avira stands on the right, asks them about their grandmother, checks out answers on his laptop, passes them further to the right to the 2nd and 3rd chabadnikim who put shel rosh veshel yad at the same time.

sechel > just learn chassidus

why don’t you also learn Divrei Yoel, R Salanter, R Hirsh, R Soloveichik, and then intelligently discuss how they relate to your chassidus so that we all could appreciate it?

Lostspark: absolutely! I’ve come to the conclusion that sechel is woefully misguided, and doesn’t understand what he reads. Whether this is his fault or his teachers’ fault, I don’t know.

Always_Ask_Questions,

“black-ha(ugh)tiness”

Kol haposel, b’mumo posel

Yserb, the way you describe the process in publishing Rav Hirschs writings is not altogether accurate. In “collected writings,” there is a controversial essay about chazal and science, which was not written in Rav Hirschs handwriting , was found in his study, and was included, because someone on the team said it “must” have been written by him, despite its being considered heresy according to rishonim and achronim across the board.

So maybe they usually were careful, but there were definitely cases of mistakes.

Yserbius, no, a Rebbe does not leave his responsibilities to someone else. It says “Aseh L’CHA Rav”, choose one for yourself, not that the Rebbe is chosen for you.
A Rebbe is who he is because people choose to follow him. If people choose to follow his son, that’s their decision. In the early days of chassidus, most Rebbes did not have their sons take over. It’s only become an issue more recently, when chassidic groups control vast amounts of money, that the sons would insist on taking over.
Even R’ Yoilish didn’t want to become Rebbe at first, but people insisted he do so.

Dear Avira,

I’m not following the topic here. But the Ramchal would absolutely protest you conflating the parable of the hedge maze with the idea of a Rebbe.

It is not automatic to have one teacher. R Meir had two (or three) teachers. He tried out w R Akiva first, did not hap it, went to R Yishmael, and then went back to R Akiva. But these two illustrious teachers were not enough – he would also run after Acher’s horse on Shabbos. And then he married Talmida Chachama, and learned from her also.

DaMoshe, can you please show me a source from anyone before the Rav Yisroel Salanter ztl who says anything about Mussar as Rav Yisroel Salanter explained it?