The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach

the basic idea of chassidus is ahdus hashem, this is yechida shebinefesh, this is a very very deep concept, when moshiach comes this will be seen with ones eyes, now who can – thru learning chassidus which explains this concept and contemplating in depth on this idea – come to such a recognition, every person according to his level and amount of time and effort he devotes to it, this is why chassidim learned chassidus for hours before davening and then davened for hours, some chassidim davened on shabbos or even during the week for the entire day to be able to see with the עיני השכל the g-dliness in everything more and more.
the more a person internalizes achdus hashem, it refines his midos
so its very diifremt then musar. no reaon to argue about this, just learn a few sifrai chassidus maybe
תניא, דרך מצותיך, תו”א ולקו”ת
if these seforim are too deep for a beginer, there are shiurim on them, or learn the first 4 volumes of likutai sichos which bring these ideas down to simple people who never learned chassidus
so this is why the 9 most likeliest candidates to be moshiach are the baal shem tov, maggid, alter rebbe, mitiler rebbe, tzemach tzedek, rebbe maharash, rebbe rashab, frierdiker rebbe, the rebbe.
now dont bring me any rav this or that who says moshiach cant be from the dead, thats a different discussion, the idea is that this is what moshiach will do – he will teach chassidus!

Right…so instead of doing what the neviim say moshiach will do (rebuild the bais hamikdash, bring all jews back to eretz yisroel, restore malchus yisroel, make all of the world know Hashem, bring world peace, heal all the sick, etc..)

Nope – his job is to teach chasidus.

Avira- not a contradiction. Yes he needs to fulfill all his Halachic criteria to get geula set up. But once that’s done, why is he called a king? What’s the significance? The answer is that he will elevate the people by being משכמו ולמעלה מכל העם in his Neshamas level and comprehension of Elokus, which he will then use to elevate the people. (He won’t need to force/ control the people because we won’t need policemen when moshiach comes. So this is the loftier idea of a king.)

See Derech Mitzvosecha- minui melech for more

litvaks understand moshiach (and judaism) very gashmiusdik. a king will get up – maybe natanyahu – get rid of all the arabs from yerushalayim and eretz yisroel, build the bais hamikdash, bring all yidden to israel and they will learn gemara. chassidus explains much deeper, what a king really is, the giluy elokus that will be then, what a bais hamikdash is bepnimius, etc

>>>that’s extremely offensive.

I must say that I agree with Avira here.

Although I agree with Sechel that chassidus puts much more of an added focus on the spiritual aspects of Moshiach, with many maamarim explaining the level(s) of gilui Elokus that we will experience at that time, as well as discussing the neshama of Moshiach etc. –

That doesn’t mean that the litivshers have a solely gashmiusdik view of the Geula, as if it’s something that could be done by some Netanyahu.
This assumption is degrading and offensive.

As Avira pointed out, if you look in the seforim of the Chofetz Chayim and Rav Elchanan Wasserman, you will find a lot on the ideas of לתקן עולם, and how we will be able to have a close relationship to Hashem.

And obviously, Melech Moshiach is considered by all (Torah) groups in klal Yisroel to be a tremendous tzaddik and talmid chacham (as the Rambam (nigleh) writes in hilchos melachim and teshuva: הוגה בתורה ועוסק במצוות, חכם גדול הוא יתר משלמה ונביא גדול הוא קרוב למשה וילמד כל העם)

The only ones who fit Sechel’s description are some segments of the “religious zionist” community who think Moshiach is some nationalistic idea of Jews taking control of the land of israel and appointing a king over the land. These people (like David Bar-Hayim, and the like) are not accepted in normative circles (to the best of my knowledge).

@sechel

Even leshitoscho that Mashiach’s job is to teach Elokus why can’t that be done with Ramchal or Sifrei Hagroh? Did the sifrei Chabad put a copywrite on understanding Elokus? Do you think Kabbalah was invented in Lebavitch? The Rishoinim had the Keballah and the Sefardim wrote numerous Kabballah seforim.
Besides saying “Chassidus” and referring only to sifrei Chabad is offensive to all the other Chassideshe seforim. Are they not also “Chassidus”??? Where they pashut not understanding their Rebbe the Baal Shem and the Mezritcher? Only the Baal Hatanya and his descentants understood it?

bump

@sechel83 Good question. After techiyas hamaisim, we will have back Rebbe Akiva Eiger, The Rambam, The Ramban, The Rashba, Abaye veRava, Rebbe Meir and R’ Yehuda etc… etc…, and as you say Moishe Rabeinu, the greatest navi who ever was or whoever will be. How can Mashiach born in our generation possibly be a leader over them?

R’ Yerucham z”l, the (alter) Mirrer mashgiach, asks this question.

He answers, that although obviously niskatnu hadoiros, even so, in one way, our generation is above all previous generations. We have nisyoinois they did not have…

>>>in one way, our generation is above all previous generations. We have nisyoinois they did not have…

This is similar to what’s explained often in Chassidus on the possuk “והאיש משה עניו מאד מכל האדם אשר על פני האדמה” – that when Moshe was shown all the future generations (עד היום האחרון – רש”י), he was humbled by the incredible dedication of the last generation of golus – עקבתא דמשיחא – to Torah and mitzvos, despite the incredible challenges and hardships.

“וכידוע תורת רבינו הזקן עה”פ והאיש משה עניו מאד מכל האדם אשר על פני האדמה, שהענוה דמשה (משה אמת ותורתו אמת) היתה במיוחד בקשר לדרא דעקבתא דמשיחא, בראותו את המס”נ שלהם בקיום התומ”צ בענין אל יתבייש מפני המלעיגים וכו’ וכיו”ב.”

@Menachem Shmei
Thank you.
Where is that quote, or the original source from the Alter Rebbe z”l?

Da, very well said.

I would add though that chazal say that the malachim will ask yidden to explain Torah to them; it gets complicated how to understand things like rebbe Akiva’s drashos on tagin, or Moshe rabbeinu seemingly not being able to understand shiur from an amorah(or tanna, i forgot). Most say that it’s not information that moshe didn’t know, but rather the manifestation of it, the way it’s explained was different in those doros,and likewise there will be a different bechinah when moshiach comes.

Yankel, the baal hatanya wrote in one of his later igros to allow chasidim to come for help in parnosa because they pushed for it very much.

Da, i should clarify: my point about malachim learning from people is that it was said regarding yemos hamoshiach, which implies that until that point, that wouldn’t have been the case. And harayah, a malaach taught the mechaber..also, initially the malachim did have the Torah, and thought it too lofty to be given to people, so it seems that they understood it just fine…as for laav bashomayim, that refers to how we pasken, so yes, malachim cannot pasken for us, nor can nissim, etc…

But the fact that malachim will come to us during yemos hamoshiach and not previously, together with the fact that they initially understood Torah, implies that the level of Torah knowledge in that time will be greater than before.

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to be bigger than the previous generations; im guessing we’ll be given that madrega as a matanah, or schar for our efforts in learning….but that’s just a theory.

@avira
which sefer – what page ?
it does not negate what I quoted re name of mashiach

sechel, I’m wondering, as per the question you asked earlier about Mashiach teaching Torah to Moshe Rabbeinu – you apparently view that as a proof that Mashiach must come from the dead, because you believe someone can’t teach Torah to someone else who is on a higher level than him.
Do you believe that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was greater than Moshe Rabbeinu was?

Yankel, it’s in the compilation of his igros. I can’t find it at the moment

sechel, learn basic Rashi on the Gemara in Sanhedrin. He says that the Gemara doesn’t mean Mashiach can come from the dead, it means if you think Mashiach already came.
The Rambam, in Melachim 11:3, says that Mashiach will arrive in a natural way, without miracles, similar to Bar Kochba. He further says that Mashiach will not perform any miracles, and will not resurrect the dead.

Our Greatgrandfathers & mothers were not busy with “candidates” for Mashiach . And nor should we.
Rambam wasnt busy with it . Bet Yosef was not . Rama was not . Baal HaTanya was not . and Ben Ish Chai was not either .
.
Cf Tanya ,were he says [free translation ]
.
WHERE IS THAT NEW MINHAG COMING FROM – SOMETHING OUR FOREFATHERS NEVER KNEW – TO ASK A TSADIK WHERE ONES PARNASAH IS COMING FROM ? THE TSADIK DOESNT KNOW THAT ! LIKE HE DOES NOT KNOW WHO MASHIACH IS , HE ALSO DOES NOT KNOW WHERE A MANS PARNASAH WILL COME FROM AS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE ONE OF THE SEVEN THING WHICH ARE MECHUSIN MIBNE ADAM ! THE ONLY TACHLIT OF GOING TO A TSADIK IS ONLY IN ORDER TO HEAR, WHERE AND HOW THE PETITIONER CAN IMPROVE IN HIS AVODAT HASHEM …..
.
Clear from Tanyas words that all of this is mere speculation , non productive and frowned upon .
.
Again – this thread is another ploy in furthering the ‘candidacy’ of someone whose followers have a vested interest of promoting .

So, would Chabad hold a veto over Hashem’s decision and even, Ch’V, delay a non-Chabad Moschiach?

What if, Ch’V there is another group who only accepts Moschiach from their dynasty – will the world be stuck until they climb down?

… my point is only that al pi chassidus there is a deeper meaning in moshiach, and gemara and lomdus has everything to do with it ….

Fixed it for you.

I used to hope that it was obvious that Hashem can always do what he chooses, but somehow people have all kinds of reasons not to see that.

You seem to have Chassidus as seperate from the rest of Torah. You are making a big mistake and that is why you struggle with the issues in these threads. If Chassidus does not correlate to the rest of Torah, what gives it authenticity and value?

@no mesorah. see tanya אגרת הקדשׁ כו
dont know how to figured that, see קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות
(if chassidus is musar of kabala, i might agree with you, but i learned more than a few pages and realized it has nothing to do with either)