New Brooklyn Eruv: Time to Accept?
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August 1, 2023 7:35 am at 7:35 am #2212544youdontsayParticipant
“4) What is your argument about Rav Moshe:
A – Rav Moshe would permit today’s eruv even though he didn’t permit the eruv in the 70’s.
B – Rav Moshe only forbade then because of wrong information.
C – Rav Moshe never forbade any eruv.
D – Rav Moshe is unclear on the matter.
E – Rav Moshe didn’t write exactly why this eruv is no good and that is enough to move on.’
Wow. You simply don’t get it. The answer is BAugust 1, 2023 7:46 am at 7:46 am #2212547youdontsayParticipant“5) Rav Tuvya’s story clearly shows that there were meetings about eruvin in the 50’s. This is what I was posting about the eruv vaad. Rav Aaron and Rav Moshe were trying to avoid specific pitfalls. You had enough chances to call out eruvin that aren’t properly constructed or maintained. It is all the same issue and issur. Whatever the reason that an eruv becomes passul, it’s the same problem. You want to throw around that one has to know all the halachah to be part of the conversation, but somehow can’t imagine why real life eruvin would be problematic.”
Rav Tuvia’s story does not demonstrate anything. Fiction. There was no vaad, only a pro eruv vaad. There were some meetings in the Agudas Harrabanim. No Rav Aharon and Rav Moshe’s arguments where regarding reshus harabbim, not regarding the possibility that an eruv would become passul. Stop making arguments that you can’t support. The claim that an eruv would become passul, is as good an argument as we should stop eating food because the hechsherim can become lax and allow treifos. You wouldn’t know a kosher eruv from a passul eruv if I hit on the head with it.August 1, 2023 7:47 am at 7:47 am #2212551youdontsayParticipant“6) Brooklyn is more than 12 mil. Rav Moshe never meant that Boro Park alone or Flatbush alone have 600k. Any statician would laugh at the idea of Rav Moshe’s teshuvah being a source for an exact number. Nowhere does Rav Moshe say to take a count.
At some point I’ll just give up on trying to get answers and I will post the whole thing myself.”
Rav Moshe repeated it twice, he clearly meant it but was mislead. Please, the entire teshuvah (87-88) is regarding counts. Please stop making up arguments on the go. Learn the inyan prior to making grand statements. There is no doubt from you arguments that it wasn’t that you were offline, but only that you tried to learn the inyan a little, but unfortunately failed miserably. You will not give up trying to answer, you do not have what to answer. Learn the inyan.August 1, 2023 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #2212697n0mesorahParticipantDear Youdont,
I do not agree with anti eruv group. They are going to reimagine everything just to get their point across. But they never learned enough to make their own points. So they will just go around in circles, destroying whatever they are entrusted with.
But there is something else going on here. And you blissfully ignorant of it. Or doing a great job of faking it. You are throwing every half source at the issue to try to force it. Never mind that the petitioner didn’t care for any sources. He would carry as long as we (Or his real world associates.) don’t attack him for it. He is not here for the Torah at all. Neither are you.
Rav Shmuel Birnbaum, Rav Yisroel Belsky, and Rav Aahron Shecter, could have went to speak with Rav Elyasiv in person and he wouldn’t have felt the need to go along with them. No American Rabbonim where able to pressure him. There was a lot of people keeping him away from the public. Maybe you are lying on purpose. I can’t tell anymore.
Rav Elyashiv paskened against the eruv because of the only person who he esteemed for his Torah Knowledge. That is Rav Dovid Feinstein. Rav Dovid almost never got involved in halacha battles. Here he even brought in Rav Elyashic and Rav Chaim. He was very confident that he was right. And you shrug. Until you claim that he was mislead or whatever.
August 1, 2023 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #2212731youdontsayParticipantTypical. You pick one point to argue. If I were to go back and collect all the arguments that I set forth that you did not address it would be illuminating how weak your arguments truly are.
At the minimum Rav Elyashiv did not hear from the pro side, so his statement is not complete. If Rav Belsky is any proof, there is no doubt that these rabbanim did not know, or did not follow Rav Moshe’s shitos. Hence, their arguments are not relevant to our debate. In any case, you cannot answer Rav Dovid’s inconstancies, and are throwing up smokescreens. You are not throwing half sources, you have no sources.August 1, 2023 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2212743n0mesorahParticipantRav Dovid was just living and you could have had your answers.
But that would assume that you are open to being taught something.
Instead you have the audacity to insinuate that Rav Dovid didn’t know what he was talking about. But still Rav Elyashiv was mislead by it. Anybody who knows how to learn anything at all, can see what a fool you are.
I give up trying to get any answers out of you. You are the toughest poster I ever interacted with on this site. Even worse than Health who I miss dearly.
August 1, 2023 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2212759Neville Chaim BerlinParticipant“I give up trying to get any answers out of you. You are the toughest poster I ever interacted with on this site.”
We “argue from authority” in the Orthodox world; that authority being our poskim. He seems to be wanting to engage in a rational debate in which such arguments are considered a logical fallacy. He wants this to be purely his knowledge of eruvin vs. your’s, whereas we are used to arguing by bringing down lists of poskim who agree with us.
I don’t think anyone actually cares whether he knows more about eruvin than the rest of us combined (well, he cares). At the end of the day, it’s not how the world works. We can’t just ignore our poskim and claim they were “mislead” or didn’t know what they were talking about every time they say stuff we don’t like. He’s clearly very frustrated that the Orthodox world doesn’t work this way, and will start calling everyone am haartzim when they point it out. This thread has been a roller coster of emotions, and I’m actually at the point where I feel kind of bad for him.
August 1, 2023 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #2212792youdontsayParticipantNo, Rav Dovid refused to answer regarding the eruv. Instead he wrote about 1978-79, and did not mention the current Flatbush eruv. Never insinuated anything. Stop insinuating that I said something that I never did. No, you got many answers from me, but I did not get any from you. You continuously come back with ancillary arguments, as you cannot not answer anything of substance. You simply do not know the inyan. Stay out of issues you know nothing about. As I said, if one where to go through the entire thread they will see that you never answered the core issues.
August 1, 2023 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #2212833youdontsayParticipantNeville Chaim Berlin, n0mesorah,
The two of you are jokesters. You pontificate on every issue as if you are betoch hadvarim, but when you are called out, instead of admitting that you have no shychus to the inyan, you continue to argue. The joke is that you claim to have the poskim on your side, when in fact the overwhelming majority of poskim disagree. The only posek that I argue was mislead was Rav Moshe, and this demolishes your house of cards. Since the majority of those opposing the eruv were just following his lead (and do not know the inyan). The fact that these rabbanim would argue against an eruv consisting of mechitzos demonstrates that they either do not know the inyan or are not interested in the emes.
You are the one that is frustrated, because regarding every issue that you debate you try to argue with lists, but regarding this issue the list of authority would not be on your side (you simply did not realize). The two of you have made many statements that are clearly incorrect. I am not trying to demonstrate my knowledge of the inyan. It is only that you make statements as if you know what you are talking about. I feel bad for you as you are not capable of being modeh al haemes, that you are out of your league and should stay out of the matter. -
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