New Brooklyn Eruv: Time to Accept?

Did Reb Moshe change his psak?

How’s this different than the Boro Park Eruv built 24 years ago or the Flatbush Eruv built 50 years ago?

Ever learn tzaros habas in yevamos? Bais hillel held that tzaros are patur from yibum, and can marry anyone they want. Bais shammai held that they are chayav in yibum, and would marry those tzaros.

Without a mitzvah of yibum, ashes ach is erva and the resulting children are mamzerim.

The mishnah says that beis shammai would tell talmidim of bais hillel which children they cannot marry according to their shitah, since they would be considered mamzerim.

So if beis hillel can consider some children of bais shammai to be mamzerim, and still marry in their community otherwise, why do people ask things like this about machlokes haposkim? Oh, you consider those people mechalelei shabbos…how dare you think that they’re mechalelei shabbos…

According to rav moshe and the majority of poskim, this is chilul shabbos. Those that do it, are relying on their poskim; whether or not they’re allowed to do so…i have no idea. But never will the talmidim of the poskim who forbade it change their mind just because lots of people do it. It’s not a popularity contest.

As for sefardim, the bnei torah, for example in ateret torah, do not hold of the eruv.

Brooklyn now has 3 mechitzos around it. This was not the case back then. It is no longer a reshus horabim. This is fact. You can still be machmir. That’s up to you or your rav. You can’t however say that someone who does carry is mechalel shabbos

hoo hoo: What’s Brooklyn have to do with it, regarding this, that you’re differentiating Brooklyn?

Brooklyn, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk are all part of the same one land mass.

Hoo hoo, most poskim held that mechitzos wont help, but even if they would, the matirim said rhat things like traffic lights are mechitzos….very big dochak.

Exactly which Poskim by name, on the level of Rav Moshe, permit carrying in the Brooklyn Eruv?

Yabia…see aforementioned sugya of tzaros erva. Learn mishnayos, learn gemara, and base your ideas on it, not on buzzwords popularized by ignorami online.

Aruch Hashulchan SA, O’CH 345, Rav Menashe Klein in his Mishneh Halachas,
See Yabia Omer O’CH (9,33) in detail.

Repeating what is applicable for making an Eiruv:

Tosfas Shabbos (96,2) ד’ה הוצאה indicates it for carying out and there ד’ה הכנסה indicates it for carying in. Both cases is considered a מלאכה גרועה a weak melacha, as Tosfas 2,1 asks what is the differents carying from a private area to another private area where it is allowed to carry bibliically with karmeles (4 amos wide and less than 10 tefochim high) in between. See SA O’CH 345 There is an argument a public domain 16 wide 600,000 people walking through does that include cars? Reb Moshe holds they walk with their cars but others hold that a car is a a private domain for itself. See in great detail Yabia Omer O’CH (9,33) about making a airuv of tzuras hapesach. A public domain where houses are on each side might limt the movement Traffic lights also limit movement. Intersecting roads also are questionable.

The Aruch Hashulchan in O’CH 345 explains that in the olden time there was a main road where all other roads would meet. The houses were in an alley closed on one side and meeting this main road on the other side (movo). The main road had doors on each side but open at nigh 16 amos wide. This is derived from the mishkan were all the tents would converge to the Moshe Rabbenu’s tent where all 600,000 people gather and the wagons to the mishkan took up 16 amos.
Most agree that 600,000 is required. Rav Moshe in Igros Moshe O’CH (4,87) says that a city having 12 mil by 12 mil where this amount of people gather makes it a public domain considering it a platyeh godaloh. The Aruch Hashulchan says that each street is judged for itself.

The RMA O’CH 346,3 says that currently all of our streets are considered karmelis, only rabbinical. This is the the view of most poskim and therefore we can make an airuv with a tzuras hapesach without actual doors. Most poskim’s view is that cars don’t can included in the count. We have houses on each side of the road with street lights which limit the public movement. There are other roads circumventing the main road, so the main road is not as important as it used to be.

Dear Lakewhut,

Enough. Stop. You can go use whatever eruv you want. I don’t care. But a lot of people do. And there is nothing you or I can do to change that. As I responded to you on multiple threads, this is not just an issue of muttar/assur. You could also put on earrings. But people will look down at you the same much as if you use this eruv. Now do you get it?

I agree with….nom? Wow. There are inaccuracies in reb e’s post, but i will respond with more derech eretz.

The rema was talking about the streets in his time; in our time, streets are far larger, and are probably like Mechuzah. There’s also ocean parkway, which has 600k people going through it.

Benefits of OOT for those looking for a kollel: there is usually just one eruv to argue about. I saw rabonim who pasken that eruv is ok, but I never saw them carrying. Is it a thing in NY area?

Avira, does Ocean Parkway include cars and make the whole Brooklyn a Reshus Harabim or just that street?

Dear Reb Shlomo,

The opposite. Rav Moshe did not want to fully enclose any borough with an eruv because people would say that it’s not a reshus harabbim because it has an eruv. He advocated tikun eiruvin where it was not called into question.

If I understood correctly, the Yabia Omer above agreed with Rav Menashe Klein ztz’l that a car is a separate reshus and not included in the count.

Dear Reb Eliezer,

The point is that he admits that it’s his opinion and he couldn’t persuade his contemporaries. It doesn’t matter who else had the same idea. It’s misleading to build an eruv according to a self described minority opinion.

There are two smaller eruvin in Brooklyn. Why don’t you start with those?

For all those that yell at those who use the eruv – do you have Shabbos clocks on your air conditioners? Rav Moshe T’zal, only allowed Shabbos clocks on lights. His family still does not use Shabbos clocks.

Its clear you could build an eruv that appears to address ALL the technical objections to the kashruth of an eruv but some will always oppose as a matter of principle along the lines of Rav Moshe’s objections of “what it might lead to” and other “slippery slope” arguments. Those who hold by eruvim will take advantage of what it offers and others will simply continue to be machmir. Doesn’t seem like the objections could ever be satisfied by the physical attributes of the eruv per se.

We don’t have popes in yiddishkeit

Yabia, we are commanded not to deviate “left or right” from what the chachamim teach us.

Or are you just going to continue regurgitating bland MO mottos and catchphrases?

Did you learn in depth the actual application of not to deviate? It doesn’t mean if they tell you that left is right we believe them blindly.

Yabia, actually, it does; read rashi on the pasuk.

Dear Putting,

i don’t yell about eruvin. Though I should be yelling at your post. Shabbos clocks is a halachic question, be lenient or stringent at your leisure.

Eruvin is an entire Mesechta in Shas. It was enacted way back in antiquity. We should just throw it out, for the sake of those who are too lazy to keep or prep for Shabbos?

DaMoshe: Even according to the shittas you quoted, you cannot disregard right is left, etc. You cannot decide to ignore it and not question the Rov. You must ask him for clarification based on your objection. And follow right is left, etc. if he continues to insist that you do.