Ysiegel

The Rebbe made it a point to base everything he said strictly on Torah sources. I already made mention in my post(s) that the MIDRASH (by Rabbah, a Tanah) is cholek explicitly on that Gemara, and in this instance halacha is like the Midrash. And if you were to even so much as glance at the iggeres that I sourced/linked, you would see that the Rebbe doesn’t ch”v make up his own views regarding these topics, but bases them on TORAH SOURCES like other Tannaim etc. who resolve the difficulty… You know how pilpulim work don’t you? Just like some Lubavitchers on here like mentioning explicit Gemaras but then you and others bring up other Gemaras to explain their misunderstandings…yeah, kinda like that in a way, but much more lamdish

IN ADDITION
If you’re looking for a more source-based answer, here is what I got from a good friend of mine (who is much more knowledgeable than I am – I got this answer within minutes of me asking him…):
If you look in Shemos Rabbah – and the Halacha is like the Midrash in this case – in שמו”ר פ’ ג, ו it actually explains exactly the opposite of the way it’s described here
– if it means anything to you, the Rebbe has an in depth sicha on this Midrash – likkutei sichos 11 Parshas shemos, sicha 1.

Furthermore, there’s an iggeres (a letter) by the Rebbe on the topic on the matter – Igros Kodesh 1, ieggeres 85

I don’ thave access to my books right now or I’d gladly quote from there at least the sources…

@Rso
I take issue with what you say…
I’m not the biggest lamdan, unfortunately – I wasn’t in yeshiva long enough to reach the higher classes of limud, but quite a few of my friends, in this Lubavitch/Chabad yeshiva, are extremely well versed in Rishonim, Achronim, Ge’onim…Some of them, younger than I at the time, were well versed in several tractates, to the point that you can show them a Rashi/Tosfos and they’d instantly give you a lengthy pilpul (including chidushim by the Lubavitcher Rebbe) without so much as a minute to review the contents of the page (I have seen this several times with my own eyes, sometimes to questions I have posed to them myself). This is not to mention the ramim, whose classes would be your typical hour and a half of chakira into a Rashi, line of Gemara, Akiva Iger, or the likes.

It is not very well known, I suppose, but the Lubavitcher Rebbe was adamant that Chabad yeshiva bochurim be well versed in Gemara, Halacha, etc., and that they should write chidushei Torah (to this day a booklet is printed in every Chabad yeshiva with chidushim from the students, some chidusim in Nigleh, and some in Chassidus).

So no, the issue isn’t that Chabad doesn’t learn these things. It’s that the “face of Chabad” is a bunch of simple minded children (whether adult children or physically young children is irrelevant) who give the rest of Chabad — that part of it which rarely browses the internet, like me, and which doesn’t take any interest in mindless debates regarding things which were never really emphasized by the Rebbe to the extent that these crazies make it seem — a bad name…

I give in to my curiosity once in a while and browse over these forums, with a mixture of entertainment and sadness playing a symphony within me as I read…and once in a while I make it a point to emphasize those of us who belong to a group within Chabad which does its best to stay true to the true path the Rebbe ztz”l left for us as our leader, living up to his example.

@lostspark
So coming from a Chabadsker, you actually haven’t named most of the major issues people have with Chabad, and which [geniuses – lashon sagi na’or] like you can’t ever seem to explain even according to the Rebbe’s own lamdus, constantly citing shallow understandings of sichos and jabbering about childishly about how the Rebbe is the greatest and therefore… even your engagement in such shallow discussions (on your part – the rest of the community here have legitimate questions and complaints) is completely hefech everything the entirety of the Chassidic movement (and thus Chabad as well) stands for, and in particular the Rebbe’s derech…since when do we engage in nonsensical petty arguments and debates?

Some of the more major questions aimed at the Chabad derech are:
Not sleeping in a Sukkah, which is seemingly a chiyuv d’Oraisa
Eating before davening, which every other Yid on the planet who grows up in a religious home, is taught is not allowed kepashut
Not eating seuda Shlishis, which every other Yid on the planet is machmir on, nearly every shul provides it except Chabad etc…
The ubiquitous (albeit not majority) notion that the Rebbe, who has been buried at the Ohel (deny it all you want – you will only make yourself unworthy of any intelligent response) will come back and be Mashiach…

For the most part the other taanos are just silly and unworthy of discussion. Like the notion that Chabad don’t learn Gemara and so on…the amount of people I can name amongst Chabad Chassidim who know entire masechtos beal peh, bkiyus in rishonim, achronim, some friends who have encyclopedic knowledge of Shu”A, including several poskim of the previous generation…. Other taanos follow suit in their silliness, and it is only thanks to mindless yapping children such as you (as well as CS/chabad”shlucha” [though what exactly is the “shlichus” of bickering nonsense about the Rebbe and Chabad which the Rebbe himself did not stand for] and others), that the taanos as silly as they may be, are apparently validated for the eyes of the internet browsing world….

I have just seen CS’s response and I am horrified. To say this in the name of Chabad is ludicrous, and certainly atrocious!

There is an organization FUNDED BY CHABAD which I noted called Or Habayit (it is not Chabad run, only funded by, and SUPPORTED BY Chabad rabbanim, very many mashpiim etc.) – and Mashpiim will ALWAYS refer the couple to a PROFESSIONAL! The Rebbe himself sent people to therapists of all sorts – including marriage counselors – and would give the general advice that this should be done, (only with the caveat that they be religious, so that they appreciate the importance of religious issues that come up etc. etc. etc.).

CS (Chabad Shlucha in the past, I believe) You have discredited yourself time and again from speaking in the name of Chabad, a huge organization that has official voices, and you certainly do Chabad no good with the nonsense you spread in its name….horrifying to say the least.

Also consider Northern Israel…
Haifa has lots of Chassidisher neighborhoods, there’s also Kiryat Shmuel around Krayot area.
There’s Chatzor, too, and Tzfas…depends a lot on work as well, worth looking into relevant job opportunities in various places, but all in all the above northern towns are generally much much cheaper. (you can probably find a nice 3 bedroom apartment in Kiryat Shmuel for around 4500)

@1a2b3c
I agree…I’m a Lubavitcher and I find this offensive…and silly…and other things I don’t have time to think of how to express….and takka it’s the opposite of what Lubavitch represents (a tiny bit more self confidence…)

I’ll say this: if your feeling good about yourself is dependent on what random people from random places write anonymously about a group you associate yourself with…start learning more Chassidus, and try finishing Likkutei Dibburim from start to finish (and even if you already have…you’re obviously young enough to read it again and it will have new and different meaning every once in a while).

Behatzlocho

(Hebrew based joke:)
Breslover goes to a gas station to pay.
Clerk: mezuman?
Breslover: bechavod!
Confused clerk: umm.. ashrai?
Breslover: ashrecha!

Mods didn’t let my other Lubavitcher jokes on, so let’s see about these:
How many Lubavitchers does it take to change a light bulb? Ehhh the old one’s still good…

How many Meshichistim….? The old one never died!

How many anti-meshichistim…? They prefer to live in the dark!

How many Russians? Two. One to hold the lightbulb, and the other to drink until the entire room spins!

In Israel the Blonde jokes are all about Kurdim…and I have to admit that it tends to be very true…so place your “not smart person” term in the following joke as you prefer:

A “person” is shopping around the grocery store, when he notices an odd, almost futuristic looking object on the shelf. Calling over a clerk, he asks him to explain what it is.

“That,” says the clerk, “is a Thermos cup!”

“Woooow….that sounds awesome! What does it do??”

“Well,” explains the clerk, “that keeps hot things hot, and cold things cold..!”

Impressed with the prospects of such an invention, the “person” buys two of them.

Later that week, he’s at work, holding his Thermos cup in hand and feeling like the king of the world, legs up on the desk and everything. Along passes the boss when he notices his employee with a strange looking cup on his desk. “what’s that?” he inquires.

“This,” the “person” answers smugly, “is a Thermos cup. It keeps hot things hot and cold things cold!”

“Oh! Sounds really cool! And what, if you don’t mind me asking, do you have in their at the moment?”

The “person’s” smug smile turns even wider. “Coffee and two popsicles!”

Rabbi is taking a stroll in the park…on Pesach. He notices a blind man sitting on a bench, taking out a sandwich to eat for lunch. Well, blind as he is, the sandwich slips out of his hand and scatters all over the floor.

Feeling terrible for the poor blind man, the rabbi checks his pockets for anything worthy of eating that he might offer him. Since it was Pesach, all he could find was some matzah, but it was better than nothing.

Handing the matzah over to the hapless man, the latter grabs it and begins to feel it all over, examining it in all directions. After a few moments of this, he exclaims, “who wrote this nonsense?!”

A famous vort by the Lubavitcher Rebbe tz”l:
The response to the ben Rasha is, if you were there, you wouldn’t have been redeemed with everyone who left Egypt…
The diyuk is IF YOU WERE THERE, but since Bnei Yisroel have received the Torah, we became a holy nation, and sons to Hashem, and therefore in the future Geula, even the ben Rasha will be redeemed!

Upon request I’ll mention some more vortlach, there are tons…

I won’t bother reading the entire thread until now, so sorry if my answer is repetitive…

In the time of the Alter Rebbe there was a group of Jews called “misnagdim” (mitnagdim in sphardic Hebrew), who called themselves thus on account of their opposition to the ways of Chassidus, since at the time it was still new and they had some shaalos on it. These mitnagdim were the ones who, for example, made a libel against the Alter Rebbe in order to send him to prison in the first place.

When the Alter Rebbe was released, he was supposed to be sent to the house of his chossid (the name of the chossid escapes me at the moment), who lived on the top floor. The authorities who escorted him, however, accidentally brought him to the same address, but the bottom floor, where there lived one of the more serious misnagdim. Well hachnasos orchim is hachnasos orchim, so he served them both tea, but commenced to berate the Alter Rebbe’s rabbi and teacher, the Maggid, and the whole tnua of Chassidus in general. The Alter Rebbe listened and did not respond with his head buried in his hands.

The chassidim who were waiting upstairs eventually realized what must have happened, and went downstairs to rescue the Rebbe…The Alter Rebbe said something about showing kavod to baal haachsanyia (if any of these details are important to you I can look up the sources…), made a brocho and drank the tea, then left.

Since it was already after shkiya by that point, and the Alter Rebbe technically wasn’t “freed” from his imprisonment until leaving the house of the misnaged, where he had to suffer hearing so much against his teacher etc., then it is considered as if the “finalization” of the geula was on chof kislev.

Today B”H no misnagdim exist, since all the shaalos and kushyos they had were answered on several occasions (the debate in Minsk, in Shklov, and others, with the Alter Rebbe himself), and Chassidim and Litvaks have had numerous opportunities over the years to work in full cooperation with each other. Any hisnagdus on anyone’s part today is simply a matter of ignorance and nothing more.

Defend Chabad and the like sound like either a. A teenager (at least mentally), or b. A Baal teshuva who began being part of the Chabad community sometime in the past few years, in which case he should have no say in such huge matters as the ones being discussed, or c. a combination of the two.

There are so many things wrong with the points being spewed around here…

In all my years of going to gatherings, hearing rabbonim in the Chabad community (you know, the ones who are actually knowledgeable in Shas, Shulchan Aruch, Chassidus, etc), and hearing Chassidim whose opinions are heard and respected within the Chabad community —and, more than anything, from my modest knowledge of Chassidic works—after all of that I have never seen such views as expressed by many individuals here speaking in the name of Chabad.

I wouldn’t care to so much as respond, but considering the many readers who might be exposed to this nonsense I find it right to say something anyways, just in case.

At any rate I’d absolutely love to have a conversation with some of these individuals in order to try and set some things straight… Pains me to see it.

I’m just going to answer the OP without going through the other posters (I mention this in case my response reflects a message I wouldn’t want to make, in light of previous responses), as a Lubavitcher:

It’s sort of the difference between “Lekatchila” and “Bedieved”. To begin with, the entire tnua was anti-Torah (……), but once there is already a state, it hardly helps to fight against it, and so the stance is preserve and nurture that which accommodates true Torah values.

To emphasize: even today, Chabad’s stance is NOT to embrace the said tnua of Zionism. Rather, as it stated, the stance is to embrace that which adheres to Torah, notwithstanding Zionism in its anti-Torah image.

This is similar to Chabad’s stance towards Reform Jews/Judaism. Towards the tnua, no recognition whatsoever. Towards the Jews– we treat them as any Jew.

It is explained in Chassidus (and if it is, like, REALLY, extremely important to you then I’ll gladly dig up the sources, including the sources in Nigleh — i.e. Gemara, Rishonim, other classic works) , based, of course, off of various sources, that an entire inyan is included in its opening, and subsequently in its end. For instance, the beginning of the Gemara will as a rule include within it concepts that pertain to the Maseches as a whole, and its ending can be traced back to it as well, as a sort of “stamp and closure”.

Well, Acharon Shel Pesach isn’t just its own holiday. You see, this is in contrast to, for example, Shemini Atzeres, about which the commentaries (Rashi…) explain, that it is like a King whose son must go away after being with his father for a week. So the King asks him to remain for just one more day; Shemini Atzeres has its own inyan, its own vorts, and so forth. Acharon Shel Pesach signifies the culmination of the entire Chag; that is why in many sources it is related to as a holiday of Geula, of our future redemption. Since the first part of the Chag, Leil Haseder was mostly focused on our redemption from the Land of Egypt, and the continual redemption even today (bekol dor vador chayav adam lehar’ot et atzmo…; hashata avdin…), now this last part is more focused on the future redemption BB”A.

That is why it is called specifically Acharon Shel Pesach, to signifiy that it is the ENDING and SUMMATION of the entire point and Chag of Pesach, that of redemption and freedom from our chains, whether physical or spiritual.

I’ll be happy to provide sources/elaboration upon request.

GAON:
Certainly I disagree with the OP’s statements when understood in a literal, shallow sense…I wonder, too, at his intentions but I decided to take his question at face value…

Regarding all statements mentioning “Misnagdim” (and “Misnagdim vs. Chassidim”), it is important to understand that these days, when the real, hard-core Misnaged of two hundred years ago is not at ALL what exists today. The terms refer to the concepts behind them. For example, there are many “chassidim” who are really not so much chassidim! (Many of whom you can easily find hanging around the CR…) don’t wanna get too much into here though…

Now, when you really, REALLY dig down deep into the kishkes of the concepts, Gan Eden vs. Olam Hazeh really are opposing emphases between the two parties, VERY ROUGHLY speaking. That is, if you speak to your average Litvisher Yeshiva bochur (and I have spoken to no small amount of them, from various backgrounds, and have heard many, many others spoken to as well), it is not uncommon to find that the end-goal, the ultimate purpose, is to, say, be a Talmid Chochom. Or, perhaps, to gain schar mitzvah and so on and so forth.

Now, Gan Eden is representative of a concept of receiving reward for your actions; of GETTING to some kind of compensation for your actions etc. And this, in effect, is ultimately the same as being a Talmid Chochom, or schar mitzvah mitzvah in the traditional understanding of the verse.

Contrary to that, Chassidus Chabad very much emphasizes the avoda that we do here in this world as an end-goal in and of itself. So, obviously, everyone will agree that that is our purpose, and other groups will hold that to be an ikkar. The question is in the concept behind it, what is the significance of this avoda. So in a sense, yes, Chassidus Chabad will often circle around this world as an ikkar more-so than other groups might, but I still don’t think that THAT is what is the one thing unique about Chabad that sets it different than other groups.

Regarding Polish Chassidim, of course you are correct, and I attempted at some point in my previous comment to so much as hint at that, but as you say this isn’t the place for such an arichus…

I wrote the above in a bit of a hurry and without editing so I realize some of it may be a tiny bit difficult to understand what I’m getting at…I’ll be happy to clarify upon request.

In Israel they’re anywhere between 60 shekel and 120. I recall even hearing rumors of 150 for a kilo but not likely…

I use Head & Shoulders, as it’s the only thing that keeps the dandruff away for me…and believe me I’ve tried plenty! So in my case there’s a pretty serious nafka mina between shampoo and body wash.

A nice example of the types of convos we should be having… Discussing actual sources rather than opinionated nonsense…

IN ADDITION:
I just remembered, another book which might be of interest to several forumers here…

This is back from the days of the old Misnagdim. One Chossid of the Tzemach Tzedek (and I think he was the chossid all the way back to the Alter Rebbe, if I’m not mistaken) who was challenged by a very serious Talmid Chochom who was a misnaged, regarding several questions on Chassidim. One of the main questions was one of the change of Minhagim.

Well, what ensued was a sort of debate which was printed in a book in recent years called “Vikucha Rabba” ויכוחה רבה, which is fairly in-depth, on the matter…

Two hundred + years of maamarim, sichos, extraordinarily deep divrei & chidushei Torah, all in the trash by the hands of a handful of individuals who claim to be representatives of these teachings of Chabad Chassidus…

CS: If you had any sense to you, and any respect to the Rebbe, you would stop now. Rather than turning not only the responders here but also every reader on this site against the Rebbe, you should perhaps consider publicizing some of the Rebbe’s unique chidushim on Torah. Or is all this babble about mashiach and nasi hador all you know? I mean seriously, over two hundred years of deep wisdom and it comes down to “My Rebbe is better than your Rebbe!”?!?!?!?! Just stop, it’s absolutely horrible every time I see that this thread is continuing (though I do not waste my time reading this lashon hara, believe me).

It’s absolutely abhorrent, and reminds me of that quote from Tanya…taking the King’s head… (al derech mashal, of course).

The Rebbe stood for so many good things, and here people like you are hanging on to some made-up nonsense with no source whatsoever. Just stop!

It’s just too bad that all the real Lubavitchers aren’t here to defend themselves, since they don’t have smartphones (nor internet, the majority of them), and those that do certainly don’t use them to browse such nonsensical forums as this one…

The real Lubavitchers are busy discussing Tosfos and what the Maharsha is mechadesh in the sugiya etc etc…

So a few silly people who call themselves Lubavitcher are attempting to defend a movement they themselves hardly belong to, and the rest of you are using their fabricated nonsense as sort of ground for your spewing of hate against a movement you are hardly truly familiar with?!

Case in point: would the Lubavitchers here tell me the difference between Nacha yud daled and Nacha caf hei?

That one was easy… How about the vort of Pada Beshalom chaf vav?

Which is higher, David Avdi, or Yom Hasheini?

For the non Lubavitchers, I can personally meet you up with as many Lubavitchers as you have acquaintances who can teach you a thing or two on Torah learning, some of whom are baki in Gemara-Rashi-Tosfos by heart (literally you can give them a page number and they’ll explain the Tosfos in great depth as though they had just come out of a shiyur), Beis Yosef, Taz, Magen Avraham, Shulchan Aruch (again I emphasise, by heart), and THEN Shulchan Aruch HaRav.

Yes, some I know are baki in Mishna Brura as well, and I know of some who became rabbis of Sfardi shuls, so they began learning R’ Ovadya’s work as well.

And so on and so on…. Go look for those who represent Lubavitch/Chabad not by arguing childishly online, but who are so busy in either shlichus or Torah study that they have no time nor any good reason to do otherwise.

I’m sorry, I really wasn’t clear.
I meant that this guy has no clear identity. If anyone is interested in what he’s selling, they’ll surely contact him. Many people will have no issue exchanging personal contact info in order to make a purchase (phone number, email, etc.), and consequently may even go as far as to send him money in the hopes of receiving the promised goods.

I really don’t intend to jump to conclusions, only that it is a fairly common thing that people online will do all of the above as a sham to get naive buyers’ $$$. That’s all I’m saying…

Best tip you’ll get: sleep well!!! Low sleep = weak immune system. Great way of getting a virus is to not sleep. Especially when travelling this is important to keep in mind since you’re always trying to get things done.