maskildoresh

Off topic, but on topic – if you keep finding the inevitable loopholes in your filter, whichever it is, you may want to also check it Guard Your Eyes. You’ll probably be very glad that you did.

Which Drush of the Bina LiIttim, please?

Methinks that perhaps you, TD, should realize that I did realize, and tired of the subject, attempted to change the discussion to world literature .

There’s a lot to talk about here . Just one point.
When someone gives a lot if Tzedoka and is honored for it, his identity as a Baal Tzedoka is being honored. That’s the paradigm . If he has a personal shortcoming in another area it’s not relevant . If he is widely known to be openly unethical etc this wouldn’t apply, but mosdos usually avoid that.
When someone IDENTIFIES with their Toeiva identity , that’s a different story entirely. They identify as a poster-child to make a statement to promulgate an Aveira.

Rav Chaim Kanievsky zatzal write up an entire list of what he considered Kol Hatorah Kula for an individual who wanted to make a specific Yossochor/Zevulan partnership covering it all. It was quite an extensive list.

Rabbi Eisen from Shas Yidden has the list, (and has faced facilitated a number of such partnerships. )

I mostly lurk but can’t agree more with many of your points, Neville.

I am frustrated and saddened on a regular basis by the fact that almost no one researches or quotes actual sources even when discussing Torah topics, Halacha or Hashkafa. It’s extremely saddening.

Avira,
I generally agree with you.
I don’t , of course , disagree with any of the sources that you have posted.

The concept of being an atheist and outwardly following the Torah, for externalistic reasons such as not wanted to change one’s lifestyle etc is certainly not ok. If a person is a genuine Kofer , unfortunately he must suffer all the consequences in Olam HaEmes that result. I don’t think anyone would say that being “Orthoprax” is ok.

HOWEVER, I have two cautionary qualifiers.
1. It would not be proper to say to someone Jewish who claims to be an athiest , that he should start violating the Torah externally Chas Vishalom, in order to “honestly conform” his actions to his beliefs. Regardless of one’s beliefs, it’s not ok to be Oiver Issurim. His Teshuva will be far easier if he hasn’t abandoned particing Yiddishkeit, as well. So it important that if you are “demolishing orthopraxy” you shouldn’t be misunderstood as saying that people who don’t believe shouldn’t maintain their Yiddishkeit in practice. Doesn’t mean it’s ok, of course.

2. I have met many people who are confused about what they belive , and aren’t sure themselves. Emuna is deeply rotted in the Neshoma. Yiddin who were tremendous Avaryanim RL have suddenly chosen to give ip their lives rather than repudiate their Yiddishkeit.
I’m not sure that some people who think that they are atheists aren’t really lost in the midst of a Nisayon in Emuna. I’ve found, that when engaged in conversation , many will admit to be unsure of what they really feel. What drives the engine of maintaining Yiddishkeit on the outside may often be the Neshoma refusing to lose its grip on what’s most precious to it, althewhile allowing various rationalisations to take place. I would caution against pushing people who say they don’t belive. I’ve heard people say “I don’t know why I still won’t eat Treif/marry a non Jew/ eat on Yom Kippur etc”.

This doesn’t mean it’s ok, it’s not ok to be a Kofer.

But sometimes people need help to realize that they are not as far away as they think. Everyone can do teshuva

It shouldn’t fall within the purview of common sechel to ask ignorant people question. I would suggest that you ask someone who you know actually knows the answer to your question, so that you can take what he says seriously.

“You are old,” said the youth, “and your jaws are too weak
For anything tougher than suet;
Yet you finished the goose, with the bones and the beak —
Pray, how did you manage to do it?”

“In my youth,” said his father, “I took to the law,
And argued each case with my wife;
And the muscular strength, which it gave to my jaw,
Has lasted the rest of my life.”

Lewis Carrol

Nemesora:
You’re reaching. Saying “that’s your opinion but not mine” isn’t a refutation of Maven’s cogent points. Nit picking on the details doesn’t take away the thrust of the idea.

The truth is, that you are drawing the target, and your arguments, around your previously lodged arrow and emotional attachments.

Maven: I’m impressed. Doesn’t happen that easily and almost never on YWN

Gadol,

It’s really ugly the way you talk to Avira. I know he pushes your buttons, but, please…
And your mischaracterization of the perspective that eschews situations with secular exposure as pushing being chained in the kitchen is equally ugly…

Avira,

The truth is that a career in the secular world presents a challenge to both men and women. How one defines success, defines oneself, relates to other, creates compromise, how one changes perspectives, goals, aspirations , etc etc . Without discussing the “Kol Kevuda” aspect, I’m not sure that there is need to make it an issue about women’s ruchniuis per se …

Zaphod,
Excellent points.
Sartre, Kierkegaard , Camus, and the others created a a value system and life philosophy which has helped create the cesspool we encounter today. “being true to your whole self”, “living fully”, etc etc ad nauseam. Defining living and value in terms of one’s own existence and experiences , this perspective is completely antithetical to Torah on every level.
(I don’t think it would be an oversimplification to summarize “The Myth of Sisyphus” as אכול ושתה כי מחר נמות. )

Yet so much of this philosophy has made its way into the underpinnings of todays worldview that, sadly, these points are perceived as basic “truths” even within our own Machane.

It’s not worth touting the smart things Sartre may have said. Yiddin should avoid the philosophers. They have nothing worthwhile to add to and very much to detract from the perspective in life that we receive wholly from our Heilige Torah

It would be worthwhile to read the beginning of 19 Letters, where Rav Hirsch described the need to understand and appreciate the Torah’s life-perspective from within, not from without.

It’s interesting – if you read Einstein’s essays , you will find many expressions of Jewish thought and feeling. He has an entire essay on why Jews don’t go hunting, for example, that is fascinating. He was a Chochom who understood much
Imagine how much Klal Yisroel could have gained if he would have been brought close to the Torah….

My observation has been that sometimes even the most respectful children can act in way that are out of character. They can question and challenge. They will claim that they are just acting out of concern that their parent should not make a bad decision that hasn’t been thought through, etc. Though this concern is partly the genuine motivation, there’s also sometimes a resistance to seeing a parent in a relationship with someone who isn’t Mommy…

With regard to your question about families “blending”- my limited observation is that this less of an issue when seniors marry – the children aren’t really operating in a setting in which they are expected to blend into a single unit (as happens when younger people remarry). It seems to be a bit easier for everyone to be respectful and loving. Expectations and frustration, as always, should be somewhat managed by trying to anticipate areas of conflict and using open and clear communication ….

May Hashem guide you with Siyata dishmaya and chessed

“And on we worked, and waited for the light
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread”

It was because they didn’t have herring.
With herring, even bread without meat doesn’t require cursing.
At least if you have a little Bromfin to go with it.

And close your eyes with holy dread
For he on honeydew hath fed
And drunk the milk of paradise
Kubala Kahn

Actually, the “Minhag “ to give a diamond engagement ring was invented by Jewish diamond Sochrim!

It’s a Minhag that has helped many Yiddin make Parnasa !

My grandmother used to add a sliced apple to the shmatlz herring she made. She said that was what made it taste so good.
I don’t know how she went about making the shmaltz herring, but with the apple it was better than any other.

It may not have been the apple. Her chicken soup etc was also better than anything else …

I miss her , for a lot more than for her food . The Taam of a lost generation was one that enhanced every part of Yiddishkeit and life. Even the food…

Bringing up the “Frum people who are unethical” straw man argument is a distraction that does nothing to take away from the basic point that the Torah is the source and measure of Ethics. Claiming that the Torah needs to be hyphenated (e.g. Ethical-Torah ) is a claim that the Torah is Chas vishalom deficient in some way, rl.

תורת ה׳ תמימה משיבת נפש, מאירת עינים, מחכימת פסי, טהורה ועומדת לעד.

Of course, a Torah Jew’s intuition will be in consonance with the Torah, a healthy Neshama will want what’s right and abhor what’s wrong . But the litmus test isnt one’s intuition , it’s the Torah.

In fact, there are those that explain that this was the actual Nisayon of the Akeida. Avrohom Avinu “felt” that it was wrong. That’s what his heart told him. (In fact, it wasn’t Ratzon Hashem to kill Yotzchok, so his heart was sensing correctly). Yet, he was Mivateil his human understanding and intuition to the Ratzon of HKBH. And the Aibeater said “Now I know that you are a YIREI ELOKIM “

Reb Eliezer,
“Unorthodox “ in the title of his book was not referring to to the “orthodox “denomination of Judaism, it’s a description of himself and his journal. You’re taking it out of context. He never associated with anything other than authentic Yiddishkeit.
Of course he was Mikareiv many, many Yidden who had may have drifted in different directions before they had had the fortune of meeting Rabbi Feldman.

No Mesora,
Your statement is ignorant and wrong. “Great Rabbanim “ did not violate Halacha

The Gemora in Shabbos says that a person who is a angry and smashes bottles to “vent” his anger, this is similar to worship of Avoda Zara. The explanation of the characterization as AZ is beyond the scope of the this note, but it’s clear that blowing off your anger by venting in an blast expression of negative energy is wrong from a Torah perspective .
I think my worthy colleague Avira has articulated some options that are in consonance with the Torah way very eloquently

The “Datche” vacations that many gedolai yisroel took in the summer consisted , for the most part, of them learning in forested areas and taking walks while speaking in learning with other Talmidei Chachomim .

Many of the beautiful pictures of Rav Baruch Ber speaking in learning with other Gedolai Roshei Yeahivos and also various Admorim are from those “vacations”.

Why can’t anyone answer an honest question in a straight way?

Here’s is Wikipedias definition of “Trolling”
In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, a online video game), or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others’ perception. The behavior is typically for the troll’s amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival’s online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online.

Agreed with Avira

The Am Haaratzus is staggering.

This is major issue in Halacha and Torah Hashkafa. Yheres a Gemora in Kiddushin that discusses an actual issur to create one’s own “Peshito Shel Mikra”.
You have to know the facts of the sugya before spouting opinions about what you think makes sense or doesn’t make sense.

ArtScroll has Poskim who have them direction. There are subtle distinctions between may of yhe examples being ignorantly bandied about here.

It’s so sad how far we have fallen. Even the basic Mesora to know that you have to k ow what’s legit and what is Megaleh Panim BeTorah is lost …

Ymr
To go from criticism to gas chambers – wow.

I think What some of the previous posters are trying to say, albeit unclearly, is that we can recognize and have compassion for indivuals who have powerful urges to commit various wrongdoings. But we should not buy in to the concept that an individual should by defined by those urges. That it’s his or her IDENTITY. From a Torah perspective , that’s untrue. A yid views these urges as a Yetzer Hora. Compassion and helping in overcoming urges is different than creating a framework for people who identify themselves as gay. There are all sorts of negative outcomes that flow from buying into this concept , as YU is.

YU is trying to figure out how to technically live with the letter of the law of Halacha, all the while buying in to completely non Jewish perspective and attitude. The synthesis results in apologetics and compromise. Unfortunately it’s not surprising …